Recurring ignition switch problem

[Laura & Charles]

Every now and again, the coach acts as if I’ve turned the key to the ‘run’ position. All the warning lights flash on (as they always do pre-ignition), the steps retract, the beeping indicating low air pressure sounds, all the dash comes alive (radio, rear camera, radio, fan, etc). All this with no key. To stop it, I insert the key, turn to the run position, then back to off position, and it all goes back its ‘at rest’ behavior. Until now.

It did that this morning and I cannot get it to stop, regardless of everything I do with the key. We’re getting ready to get on the road again. My hope is that starting and driving her will knock some sense into her and it’ll all go back its ‘normal’. My fear is that once the engine starts, I won’t be able to stop it. (Since it’s acting like the key is in the run position regardless of the key’s position or even presence.

Any thoughts? (From hanging around and reading about electric problems and solutions, my money is on something grounded that shouldn’t be. Isn’t it always a ground issue?)

 

[DonTom]

Every now and again, the coach acts as if I’ve turned the key to the ‘run’ position.

Have you tried changing the key lock? IOW, the thingy your key goes in.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Laura & Charles]

Have you tried changing the key lock? IOW, the thingy your key goes in.

-Don- Reno, NV

Not yet. It has always stopped before if I manipulated the key in the lock. This thing of not being able to stop it just began today

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Can't speak to this chassis directly but the key cylinder on many vehicles pulls a rod in the column and that in turn moves the contacts in a switch assembly within/under the dash. It's not implausible the switch became loose, linkage worn, bent or other imponderable condition occurred that indexes the thing just a bit off. Worth a look-see to observe this operation and maybe you'll determine a simple or obvious root cause. I know on one car I had the switch housing was coming apart and the thing mostly worked, until it didn't.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Laura & Charles]

Thanks for the replies. The problem is resolved.. check that..the SYMPTOMS are resolved; I have little doubt the problem remains and will strike again.

Messing with the key in the ignition switch did the trick again; but this time I turned the key past the run position and let starter give the engine a little bump.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I think I'd be planning to replace the ignition switch or possible its wiring harness. Intermittent electrical issues are a bear to troubleshoot.

 

[DonTom]

Messing with the key in the ignition switch did the trick again;

Sure sounds like a flakey ignition lock to me. They only cost a few bucks but the big problem is from then on it will require a different key, if that same key is used for other stuff.

Replace the thing while it still somewhat works, or you may find it is almost impossible to remove. It must be unlocked to remove. If you cannot unlock it . . . . you're not only stuck, but then cannot replace it all that easily.

Look up the vehicle chassis on the web for ignition lock replacement. You will then see how to remove it. Normally can find a YouTube that shows it step by step.

I had to replace the ignition lock in my Y2K RV while on my last trip. Local auto parts stores will most likely have it in stock. Now I have a different (older) key for the two front doors than the ignition (new key), but not a big deal.

I have replaced many of them over the years in different vehicles. The ignition locks failing are common as the vehicle gets a bit old. I have also replaced it in my Dodge truck, several years ago as well as in other vehicles. It too has a different key than the doors because of it. I replaced that so long ago, I cannot even remember it, but it's obvious I replaced it because it's now a different key from the doors.

Other than my 2022 Class A, I don't think I have ever owned a car or pickup truck where I have not had to change the ignition lock. Very common problem on older vehicles.

The job can normally be done in about 20 minutes.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[CharlesinGA]

Gee, I've never had a lock tumbler fail. Same locks. '91 Ranger with 320K, Pontiac Vibe with 285K, others with similar amounts of mileage. I had one ignition switch fail, my '70 Mustang many years ago. It would start and then quit. Did that until I realized it had lost the run detent, and was rebounding from start to off. Drove it home by holding the switch in the run position.

Charles

 

[Kirk]

Any thoughts? (From hanging around and reading about electric problems and solutions, my money is on something grounded that shouldn’t be. Isn’t it always a ground issue?)

I often see the claim that problems are nearly always a bad ground but as a career tech that has not been my experience. There are some types of problems which that can be true, but I'd be very surprised if this is one of them. Like Gary, I would expect it to be either the locking mechanism or the associated switches and I have seen both happen.

 

[DonTom]

I've never had a lock tumbler fail.

Well, IMO, there are two types of people with older vehicles.

Those who have had ignition locks fail and those who will.

I have replaced many because I normally keep my vehicles until it's time for them to be junked.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[John From Detroit]

Were do you stick the key?
A slot in the dash or a slot on the side of the steering column?
In the first case.. I'd say replace the switch assembly. And a warning to follow.
In the second. there may be an adjustment. You will need someone skilled in that vehicle (The chassis maker) to tell you more but there may be an adjustment and a screw loose about 1-2 feet from the key slot (Under the dash) I recommend finding someone who knows where and how however if you do not already know where and how.

One thing I've been told many times when I hand in my keys is "That's too much weight on that key ring" On my jeep I got it the first time I pulled up my keys.. Then I pushed a button and the ignition key fell off on the counter and I put the rest back in my pocket.. On the motor home I told them "You will understand when you go to drive it in" (a 2nd key was already in the ignition. No ring. Just the key) With column mounted locks you do not wear out the swich (it's not there) but you may wear out the lock.. With dash mounted switches you wear out the actual switch.

 

[Laura & Charles]

UPDATE:

Started the coach, took it to the shop doing the new setup on the toad for flat towing and, as I had feared, could not stop the coach engine. Found a shop to work on the issue… finished up with the hitch folks and filled up on the way to the engine shop. After talking with service mgr there, we’re about 98% sure it’s the switch. We’re in a hotel and Rosie is plugged in a 20, 120v outlet awaiting repair (hopefully tmw). The engine shop stopped the engine by finding (and pulling) the ECM fuse…. So at least she isn’t running all night. She’s asking for a regen burn and the shop she’s at is an International shop. I told them about her ask for the regen and they’re very aware and will take care of it.

Thanks again for all the replies and suggestions! I’ll post the final outcome.

 

[DonTom]

In the second. there may be an adjustment.

All the ignition locks I have changed have been on the steering column. None of them required any type of adjustment, so I am curious what type of vehicle does.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

After talking with service mgr there, we’re about 98% sure it’s the switch.

The switch located at the very bottom of the steering column?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Laura & Charles]

The switch located at the very bottom of the steering column?

-Don- Reno, NV

The ignition switch is on the dash facia… not integrated with the steering column at all.

 

[Laura & Charles]

Were do you stick the key?
A slot in the dash or a slot on the side of the steering column?
In the first case.. I'd say replace the switch assembly. And a warning to follow.
In the second. there may be an adjustment. You will need someone skilled in that vehicle (The chassis maker) to tell you more but there may be an adjustment and a screw loose about 1-2 feet from the key slot (Under the dash) I recommend finding someone who knows where and how however if you do not already know where and how.

One thing I've been told many times when I hand in my keys is "That's too much weight on that key ring" On my jeep I got it the first time I pulled up my keys.. Then I pushed a button and the ignition key fell off on the counter and I put the rest back in my pocket.. On the motor home I told them "You will understand when you go to drive it in" (a 2nd key was already in the ignition. No ring. Just the key) With column mounted locks you do not wear out the swich (it's not there) but you may wear out the lock.. With dash mounted switches you wear out the actual switch.

The ignition switch is on the dash facia… not integrated with the steering column at all.

 

[John From Detroit]

The ignition switch is on the dash facia… not integrated with the steering column at all.

In this case yes too many keys on the ring (I recall one day saying the problem with motor homes. Held up my key ring and said "They all fit:") can wear the switch.

The column mounted ones it only wears the lock.

In my trailer days the wife had a Ford LTD and it pulled the PUP. One day the ignition lock broke so I popped the cylinder and started it with my Detroit Key (Screwdriver) so we could go camping for the weekend.... Then got a new cylinder when we got back home from the local lock shop.

 

[Laura & Charles]

In this case yes too many keys on the ring (I recall one day saying the problem with motor homes. Held up my key ring and said "They all fit:") can wear the switch.

The column mounted ones it only wears the lock.

In my trailer days the wife had a Ford LTD and it pulled the PUP. One day the ignition lock broke so I popped the cylinder and started it with my Detroit Key (Screwdriver) so we could go camping for the weekend.... Then got a new cylinder when we got back home from the local lock shop.

The coach’s ignition key is alone on its ring.

 

[TheBar]

Some vehicles have a relay in the ignition circuit.

 

[Laura & Charles]

UPDATE: The relay that isolates the coach and chassis batteries wasn’t isolating them. (i.e. it was acting as if the momentary combiner switch was being held down.) That symptom was resolved by turning both battery banks off at same time… the engine now stops with turning the key off. I won’t be surprised if that symptom returns, but at least for now, we can travel.

EXCEPT we have a new(er) problem. Our brake lights won’t turn off. I don’t see how it could be related, but it seems highly suspect to coincidentally start when the engine not stopping problem ceased.

The brake lights stay on, regardless of brake pedal or parking brake position. Turn signals and four-ways still work. Turning off the chassis batteries is the only way to get the brake lights off.

I believe I will start a new thread.