Solar for new S&B

[RockyHill]

With our RVing, solar isn't practical for us but thought this would be a good starting point for advice for solar in a new construction. I usually read all the threads in the forum so I feel confident there is a wealth of knowledge here. Basically all I know is solar panels collect energy; need a storage source and way to convert that stored energy into conventional electricity. Appreciate any help. Thanks,

Shelia

 

[WME]

Solar panel, solar charge controller, battery, inverter=120vac.
How much power and how for long, are up to you and your needs

 

[RedForeman]

Fixed solar installs are as unique as each use case. If you aren't comfortable designing and building your own system, you should consider hiring a professional. Hopefully I'm not violating any rules with a link to an outside forum, but this lively discussion on the topic may offer some insight for what to do next. Pretty much everything from "solar is a fraud" to "solar is our salvation" all in one tidy package. Several apparent (but anonymous) professionals in the field weigh in with some very informative remarks.

Caution: the linked source (ar15 dot com) has the profanity/politics filters at a very low setting. If you're the type to be offended by such things, be prepared for unfiltered opinions on some things, especially if you wander beyond the linked thread.

 

[Ex-Calif]

My brother has added whole house solar to his house over time building the system out.

The only way I would consider whole house solar is if I was convinced I was keeping the house as my forever home and my horizon was like 15-20 years.

Even my brother as do-it-himself has $15k in panels, controllers and batteries and inverters. Batteries are a huge cost and need to be replaced over 7-10 years.

My brother reckons he is saving $150 a month and so he has an 8 year payback. Right at the time he needs to spend several $1,000s of dollars on new batteries.

What I would never, ever do is finance a solar system and attach the loan to my house as collateral.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I'm in the camp that solar can be the solution if you have the right problem. Know up front just exactly what you're trying to achieve and don't get sucked into a sales spiel. It's gonna cost a lot, both acquisition and operation and your exact needs and goals wiil dictate if it's a winner or loser. When the solar hucksters come through the neighborhood ringing doorbells I consider it a sport to see how quickly I can get them to give up, some are quite skilled and it's not hard to imagine how the unfamiliar would buy into the idea of "free" power or no electric bill. Just sayin', there's a lot of BS out there so know what you're after before you start chasing it.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[RockyHill]

Fixed solar installs are as unique as each use case. If you aren't comfortable designing and building your own system, you should consider hiring a professional. Hopefully I'm not violating any rules with a link to an outside forum, but this lively discussion on the topic may offer some insight for what to do next. Pretty much everything from "solar is a fraud" to "solar is our salvation" all in one tidy package. Several apparent (but anonymous) professionals in the field weigh in with some very informative remarks.

Caution: the linked source (ar15 dot com) has the profanity/politics filters at a very low setting. If you're the type to be offended by such things, be prepared for unfiltered opinions on some things, especially if you wander beyond the linked thread.

Finding the right "professional" is a concern.

Thanks. I did a quick read through but a lot of it was still over my head--a good starting point for me.

I try to not be offended and just proceed on. Usually can catch on where some try to just stir up things.

Thanks,
Shelia

 

[RockyHill]

My brother has added whole house solar to his house over time building the system out.

The only way I would consider whole house solar is if I was convinced I was keeping the house as my forever home and my horizon was like 15-20 years.

Even my brother as do-it-himself has $15k in panels, controllers and batteries and inverters. Batteries are a huge cost and need to be replaced over 7-10 years.

My brother reckons he is saving $150 a month and so he has an 8 year payback. Right at the time he needs to spend several $1,000s of dollars on new batteries.

What I would never, ever do is finance a solar system and attach the loan to my house as collateral.

This would be the forever home. Farm has been in the family for generations.

It is being considered to get away from all the regulations/codes from local govt through the electric company. Not trying to build anything poor quality or unwise by any standards; just would like independence to build without interference.

As far as cost savings, it could not make sense but neither does having an RV .

Financing isn't in the picture.

Thanks,
Shelia

 

[RockyHill]

I'm in the camp that solar can be the solution if you have the right problem. Know up front just exactly what you're trying to achieve and don't get sucked into a sales spiel. It's gonna cost a lot, both acquisition and operation and your exact needs and goals wiil dictate if it's a winner or loser. When the solar hucksters come through the neighborhood ringing doorbells I consider it a sport to see how quickly I can get them to give up, some are quite skilled and it's not hard to imagine how the unfamiliar would buy into the idea of "free" power or no electric bill. Just sayin', there's a lot of BS out there so know what you're after before you start chasing it.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Exactly!

We "don't know what we don't know" and trying to find accurate answers is tough.

Being off grid is main goal but will it be worth the expense remains to be seen. We want to have clear understanding before we make any decisions.

Thanks,
Shelia

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The basics are simple enough - you need solar panels, batteries for energy storage, and inverter(s) to produce US standard alternating current. The more difficult question is how much of each to meet your needs. Frankly, most people have no notion of how much power they use, either peak load or daily averages and figuring that out can be daunting.

One of the primary decisions is whether you are designing for total independence from a power utility or just to provide a solar energy assist. If you will maintain access to a power utility and perhaps use it during peak demands or for some heavy-duty loads (like a/c), your other decisions are far less critical.

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

Your problem is one solar can solve with sufficient application of money. One thing to look at is some municipalities have codes that even off grid installations "must" comply with, so if this is professionally installed expect some influence by "the man". But it does offer some power autonomy to the degree you can afford. Just be sure part of the solution includes a generator.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Lou Schneider]

This would be the forever home. Farm has been in the family for generations.

It is being considered to get away from all the regulations/codes from local govt through the electric company. Not trying to build anything poor quality or unwise by any standards; just would like independence to build without interference.

As far as cost savings, it could not make sense but neither does having an RV .

Financing isn't in the picture.

Thanks,
Shelia

Are you considering going off grid without being connected to an electric utility? If so, people started doing that quite a while back and I recommend a quarterly magazine that was published for 31 years called Home Power, “The Hands-On Journal of Home-Made Power.” It started out as a mimeographed newsletter and within a few years flourished into a full fledged magazine with case studies and easy to understand technical articles. Some of the information (primarily battery recommendations) is dated but much is still relevant. Although it's no longer in print the former publisher maintains a free archive where you can download issues at

Home Power Magazine | Downloadable Archive | Home

I suggest starting somewhere in the middle and expand outwards from there.

 

[Ex-Calif]

It is being considered to get away from all the regulations/codes from local govt through the electric company. Not trying to build anything poor quality or unwise by any standards; just would like independence to build without interference.

The devil is in the details - make sure you know what the power company can get away with.

My sister was planning to install a well in upstate NY. She could sink a well but she would still be assessed an annual fee for the water infrastructure in the area. I get that the infrastructure has to be paid for but I personally thought this was complete BS...

Make sure there is no such rider from your county regarding power distribution infrastructure.

On another solar note - My brother was actually selling power to the grid and getting a small check every quarter. Then they lowered the rate they pay. As a solar house he also had to pay a distribution hurdle and when they lowered the rate he is once again paying the power company for power he doesn't even use - They always seem to figure out how to win :-(

 

[Tulecreeper]

My brother has added whole house solar to his house over time building the system out.

The only way I would consider whole house solar is if I was convinced I was keeping the house as my forever home and my horizon was like 15-20 years.

Even my brother as do-it-himself has $15k in panels, controllers and batteries and inverters. Batteries are a huge cost and need to be replaced over 7-10 years.

My brother reckons he is saving $150 a month and so he has an 8 year payback. Right at the time he needs to spend several $1,000s of dollars on new batteries.

What I would never, ever do is finance a solar system and attach the loan to my house as collateral.

I have tried to explain to many people that they will never recoup their investment just because of this. They may be saving $150 per month in electric rates, but batteries need replacing, solar panels eventually need replacing, wiring needs replacing which adds to the original price. If your roof needs replacing (at $20,000) - and it will - you will need to hire a completely separate company (at $10,000) to come and remove the solar equipment. Then the roofing company replaces your roof, then the solar company comes back to replace the equipment they removed.

The only way a person will ever recoup their expenses is if, #1- the original contract says the solar company will repair/replace all of that in perpetuity as part of the contract (and none of them will do that), or, #2- a person wins a complete $30,000 solar system in a raffle and only has to pay for repair/ replacement of pieces and parts.

 

[RockyHill]

Are you considering going off grid without being connected to an electric utility? If so, people started doing that quite a while back and I recommend a quarterly magazine that was published for 31 years called Home Power, “The Hands-On Journal of Home-Made Power.” It started out as a mimeographed newsletter and within a few years flourished into a full fledged magazine with case studies and easy to understand technical articles. Some of the information (primarily battery recommendations) is dated but much is still relevant. Although it's no longer in print the former publisher maintains a free archive where you can download issues at

Home Power Magazine | Downloadable Archive | Home

I suggest starting somewhere in the middle and expand outwards from there.

Thank you! I haven't had time to read any of the magazines, but from the covers they look like what I need. I'm a fan of downloadable archives, some of the best info on different subjects found there.

Thanks,
Shelia

 

[solarman]

With our RVing, solar isn't practical for us but thought this would be a good starting point for advice for solar in a new construction. I usually read all the threads in the forum so I feel confident there is a wealth of knowledge here. Basically all I know is solar panels collect energy; need a storage source and way to convert that stored energy into conventional electricity. Appreciate any help. Thanks,

Shelia

as a professional ( now retired ) who has designed and supervised the installation of many industrial systems over the last 20 years, my advice is this.. if you have a POCO local and can get grid power, do it.
if you are adamant that you "have" to be off grid then it's expensive and you will never break even, as soon as batteries are involved your price per killowatt generated becomes expensive and the replacement cost will leave your wallet much much lighter.. also, where are you located ? this has an enormous impact on the size of your array too..

 

[RockyHill]

The devil is in the details - make sure you know what the power company can get away with.

My sister was planning to install a well in upstate NY. She could sink a well but she would still be assessed an annual fee for the water infrastructure in the area. I get that the infrastructure has to be paid for but I personally thought this was complete BS...

Make sure there is no such rider from your county regarding power distribution infrastructure.

On another solar note - My brother was actually selling power to the grid and getting a small check every quarter. Then they lowered the rate they pay. As a solar house he also had to pay a distribution hurdle and when they lowered the rate he is once again paying the power company for power he doesn't even use - They always seem to figure out how to win :-(

At one time the local power company was telling something about paying for unused solar power but haven't heard that mentioned in a long time. If we do solar, we want to completely cut the cord from their services for the house (the farm shop different story -- welder, air compressor will still use their services).

Here, the health department septic and access to electric are the control features for permits and permissions to build which must be to whatever code is in place by the building inspector.

Our electric was from the rural electrification era and is member owned but certainly not member controlled. As far as the electric utility, they provide excellent service, probably better than common. It is all the other "devil in the details" that is a bother.

Thanks,
Shelia

 

[RockyHill]

as a professional ( now retired ) who has designed and supervised the installation of many industrial systems over the last 20 years, my advice is this.. if you have a POCO local and can get grid power, do it.
if you are adamant that you "have" to be off grid then it's expensive and you will never break even, as soon as batteries are involved your price per killowatt generated becomes expensive and the replacement cost will leave your wallet much much lighter.. also, where are you located ? this has an enormous impact on the size of your array too..

We're in south central Kentucky (Lat: 37.03°NLon: 85.95°W from national weather service if that helps)

Thanks,
Shelia

 

[gwinger]

One other big consideration is the amount of sunlight available to the panels. We have people around us that installed solar that have trees shading the array a good part of the day. We also live in Western PA where full sun in limited to about 160 days a year. That doesn't take into account the days where snowfall covers the roof.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Here, the health department septic and access to electric are the control features for permits and permissions to build which must be to whatever code is in place by the building inspector.

Note that the house wiring and electrical service would still require a building permit and residential building codes would still apply. Solar only eliminates the service entrance from the utility.

To keep the electrical load down, you will want LP or natural gas for cooking and hot water, and either that or oil for heating. Probably baseboard hot water type so no fans to power. And a gas clothes dryer too, unless you are going back to an outdoor clothesline. Will you want a/c for those hot Kentucky summers? Maybe a swamp cooler would work, or at least help.

12vdc interior lighting would help with efficiency too. Use of an inverter is major power cost due to conversion losses.

 

[RockyHill]

Note that the house wiring and electrical service would still require a building permit and residential building codes would still apply. Solar only eliminates the service entrance from the utility.

To keep the electrical load down, you will want LP or natural gas for cooking and hot water, and either that or oil for heating. Probably baseboard hot water type so no fans to power. And a gas clothes dryer too, unless you are going back to an outdoor clothesline. Will you want a/c for those hot Kentucky summers? Maybe a swamp cooler would work, or at least help.

12vdc interior lighting would help with efficiency too. Use of an inverter is major power cost due to conversion losses.

I don't think with our humidity a swamp cooler would help

Thanks,
Shelia