Soon: 911 compatible cell phone or no service

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ZuniJayne

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Greetings all....

This may be old news here, but I just learned from Verizon that the FCC has ruled that, as of Sept 06, cell phones must be 911/GPS capable or they will not be allowed access to cell phone networks.  Of course, that function can be turned off, nulling the positive aspects.

This is a nice thought for safety- I just don't like being forced to give up an old phone with MUCH better reception than any of the new phones. (Thanks again, Gary Brinck, for that phone! :))
 

Gary RV_Wizard

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Actually, the FCC has required that the cell carriers be able to comply with the 911 regulations for some time now, increasing the required percentage of complying phones over time. For practical purposes, that means a phone with a built-in GPS. To reach 100% compliance, the must rid the system of non-complying phones. I believe the FCC is making it legal to do that now, whereas they had prohibited the cell carriers from kicking people off in the past.

Jayne: I've got a nice Motorola V120e sitting in the drawer since I upgraded my phone last fall. Does QNC and NA and has pretty good reception too.  It needs a charger, though.
 

John From Detroit

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It is indeed old news, that rule was passed some years ago by the FCC and cell companies have been whining and crying for extensions so they can bring everything up to date.

The GPS can not be turned off for 9-1-1 calls

GPS is not the only location technology that is approved but the other one can't be turned off either

NOTE: I did get early notification, my office phone number before I retired was 9-1-1

Next problem, Getting all 9-1-1 centers up to standard,, The one where I worked was not
 

Jim Godward

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One of the new Verizon phones has a mapping option for about $10 a month.  Provides mapping and will follow routes if I understand the sales pitch. 

It won't do the various coordinate systems and only works in digital areas so it isn't for me though!!  Also cannot have GPS information output.  :-((
 

John From Detroit

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ZuniJayne said:
Yep,

Safety vs. privacy.  Where will it end???? (That is a rhetorical question. :))

Right here in this case.  There is no "privacy" issue here.  In order for your phone to inform a 9-1-1 operator of your location YOU must first dial 9-1-1 (9-9-9 in some countries)  You don't call, it won't tell.  You can disable the GPS for everything else, just not for 9-1-1
 

Ron

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We just delivered 8 Nokia phones to the battered women's group that they give out to women who need them to call 911if needed.  I asked about the use of these phones after the FCC regs take affect.  They have information that although non GPS phones may not be used for regular calls they can be used to call 911.  They just won't give the location info.  So if you have old cell phones you might consider donating them to a battered women's help organization.  These folks were very happy to get our old phones.  Between Fitzgerald's and us we had 7 or 8 working phones along with chargers and manuals that we gave them.
 

woodartist

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It is just another step inside the door. Bad enough you can be tracked by cell tower use :( The government wants to keep track of everyone and since 9-11, it has given them a green light to erode a lot of freedoms. Oh well, the hands of time can't be turned back. So I guess I shell out the money for a new cell phone and mobile office kit........ ::)
 

John From Detroit

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Wood, I happen to be a retired 9-1-1 phone call taker.  Trust me, there are a lot of folks who in the heat of the moment have no clue as to where they are.  Thus, when the caller calls 9-1-1 it would be nice if my replacment had that info handy.

I do recall one caller on a freeway-side emergency phone (W/B I-94 at Mount Elliott, city of Detroit, MI) insisting she was SOUTH BOUND I-75 at the Toledo Exit

There were no motorist aid phones on I-75.  Since I knew her call box number, I knew where she was (Sign overhead says "S I-75 Toledo" by  the way)

IT was a fatal accident,  Dumb and Dumber, who found seat bealth "too confining" or some such, were confined to their graves after going head first through the windshield of their car

I have had callers who knew only what road they were on,  Not where (That too was a fatal accident)

And I've had people who were just, plain, lost call 9-1-1

NOTE: you control the release of location information EXCEPT when calling 9-1-1, and it's your choice to call 9-1-1 so in no way is it intrusive.


Several years ago when phone companies started offering caller ID people, mostly boiler room operators, cried "Invasion of Privacy, Invasion of Privacy" and some commnuities (And states) responded by making caller id block the default.

However I hold that if you are ringing my phone, it is you who are the invader, and I the invaded have an absolute right to know the ID of the caller before I pick up that phone.  My state happens to agree with me.

Do you? (If not please give me your phone number so I can release it to 3,000 boiler rooms so they can all call YOU in the middle of dinner)


There is only one kind of person who has anything at all to fear from the government knowing where you are when you call 9-1-1, and that's folks like "Mr. Wee Wee Man" who used to call up and ask if we were willing to perform a certain service for his dog.  Hundreds of times a night.

We figured out where he was, and then he ceased calling... Though I suspect when he calls folks he still uses a "Cell Phone" (it's just not cellular)
 

woodartist

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I'm sure there are advantages, but it's just the trend of survellience that annoys me. Government wants to know as much as they can, and will use it against you if they see a need. Without a lot of details, I used to work for a federal agency and it was in the business of data collection on people. Never did like it. What seems innocent to many can turn into a tool against them :mad:

 

John From Detroit

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Wook, I will say this one last time,  The only way the government gets your location is if you call 9-1-1.  now there are only three reasons folks call 9-1-1 and of these only one is the "on label" use.

1: They need police, fire, ems or a tow truck to respond to their location.  (Do you think it would be helpful if the 9-1-1 operator knew where the caller actually was in this location)  This is the on-label use of 9-1-1

2: They are lost and need to know where they are and how to get where they are going, this is off label use, but may or may not be considered acceptable depending on the 9-1-1 operator  Again, do you think it might be helpful if the 9-1-1 operator knows where you are?

3: To harrass 9-1-1 (A crime in every community)  in this case, and in only this case, the Aggressive Hostile making the call has something to fear

It is not "Government survailance" when YOU and only YOU control the call  It is only government survaliance if I (As a government representive) can control the placing of the call and I simply can not do that

Of course many cell phone companies are now offering things like "kid tracker" service which also uses the GPS and reports back to the account holder (parent) where the kids have been.  This is much closer to what you are worried about, but it's not government and it can be disabled by the account holder, in fact you have to pay extra for it........... It has been around a while too (Decade at least)
 

Wendy

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woodartist said:
It is just another step inside the door. Bad enough you can be tracked by cell tower use :( The government wants to keep track of everyone and since 9-11, it has given them a green light to erode a lot of freedoms. Oh well, the hands of time can't be turned back. So I guess I shell out the money for a new cell phone and mobile office kit........ ::)

I would assume that if you're calling 9-1-1 you need help. If you need help why in the world would you be upset that the 9-1-1 operator could track you? Don't want the government to know where you are? Simple, don't call 9-1-1 or better yet, don't ever buy or use a cell phone, don't own a vehicle, don't work and pay taxes, don't file for and receive social security or any other government benefits.

Do people really think the government has the time, money, and inclination to track all of us?
 

woodartist

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Yes, the government is interested in tracking people..especially post 9-11. They do create data bases. They track groups, organizations, and individuals....not to mention telephone calls:) Sigint, elint, etc. ........heck look at video surveillance . No one cares until they need to use it, and then the data flood gates open. OK if it is only for the bad guys, but innocents get caught up in the web also.........oh well, hackers don't exist either ::)
 

ZuniJayne

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Hey, gang...I *said* it was a *rhetorical* question. ;)

I know it is a touchy topic.  Government is a weird thing.  The Veterans Administration issued new cards to all of us, partly because our social security number was prominently displayed on them.  New ones don't have it, although who knows what is in the bar code. :)

Yet New Mexico now issues vehicle and voters' registration cards with our SSNs right on them.....<sigh>
 

woodartist

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Yep, got my new VA card also:) A while back they tried telephoning medical records over an unsecure phone...that didn't last long. Heck they want your SSN to get a hunting and fishing license...the reason is to track deadbeat Dads ::) I'm sure not going to give my SSN to some clerk.......they don't ask ID, so what good is doing it, when folks can give any number. I used to get a kick out of listening on a scanner and hearing the police call in look ups and giving the SSN. Talk about a ripe picking for identity theft. SSN, name, address....always wonder how many folks were compromised that way.  Some people just don't understand the risks of all that info out there and being collected. I used to work for NSA, so I can't be "that" paranoid...or maybe their psychological testing and polygraphs are faulty ;) By the way, http://home.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html
 

ZuniJayne

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Woodartist,

I, too, worked for the NSA during the Cold War era.  I had the Russians and East Germans spying on me, and the US spying on me to make sure I didn't leak any secrets.  That is where I learned that "just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they *aren't* out to get you.  :)

 

woodartist

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Were you at Ft. Meade?? Heck, maybe we know each other. I was in telecommunications at the main bldg and also at an annex, not Fanx. Guess that is about all I can say ::) Lived near Annapolis. Heck, PM me if you want. Probably said enough :eek:
 
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