straight gas vs 10 ethanol for portable generator

[TheBar]

Yes, but how many little bottles of Heet did you add? To get to a 10% alcohol solution in an 18 gallon tank would take 1.8 gallons of Heet. 1 bottle of Heet is a minuscule amount of alcohol. You added it to prevent gas line freeze up but not to the lawnmower stored for the winter. Ethanol causes gas to degrade several times faster so don't ever put in an engine that is stored for several months.

 

[Velociraptor]

The use of ethanol as a fuel makes absolutely no sense.  I say this as a chemical engineer that worked at a gasohol plant that was converted to produce other products after the last gasohol downturn.

1 - The big problem nobody talks about.  We are using our food source to power our vehicles!  Not only do humans consume corn but this is the primary feed for cattle, hogs, chickens, etc.  Corn is also a very "water intensive" crop to grow.  Feel free to argue electric versus gasoline / diesel powered cars but using our food source for fuel is idiocy.

2 - The changes in temp and pressure, causing condensation, in most environments simply is not sufficient to cause a problem.

3 - There is no getting around the chemistry....alcohols are the 3rd most polar (ie water attracting) carbon compounds out there with methanol and then ethanol being the most polar alcohols which makes them corrosive.  There are actually alcohols available that do not attract water and are not corrosive.  For example the ethanol free fuel Buccees sells around Houston, TX actually contains isobutanol to meet the clean air mandates in the metroplex.  Isobutanol also has more energy per volume than ethanol.  Makes you wonder why we don't use isobutanol instead huh?

4 - Ethanol does increase the octane rating of fuel however this is often misunderstood.  Octane rating is often assumed to equal more energy at higher ratings however it is actually a measurement of the fuels ability to avoid "knock".  As Gary says the actual energy contained per gallon of fuel is greater for pure gas than ethanol blended gas.

I have a 200 hP Mercury inboard jet boat.  I've done apples to apples comparisons of 93 octane 10% ethanol gas and 92 octane isobutanol gas.  Both gases were used immediately upon addition to the boat.  The isobutanol gas gave me 3 mph additional on top end (~10% improvement), much snappier throttle response, and improved fuel efficiency.

We have also ran it in all of our generators, lawn mowers, and welding machines.  Even when left to sit over 1 year, without adding fuel treatments, we have had no cranking issues when running isobutanol gas.  At this point I now maintain a 55 gallon DOT approved skid tank in the back of my pickup for fueling my boat and all of our small engines.

On a side note.....my Stihls love a good mixture of Leaded 110 Race Fuel!  Nothing like the smell and sound of a 2-stroke burning lead gasoline on a Saturday morning while running the weed eater or cutting firewood!

Josh

 

[jubileee]

Some years back, before ethanol free fuel was available to us locally, we made our own by adding dyed water to ethanol laced gasoline. Then pumped off the water/ethanol mix.

 

[viceprice]

I would never use anything other than pure gasoline in any small engine. I have fought the ethanol battle. I buy ethanol free gas at the local airport for my small engines. There is a reason this is used in planes . . . Since replacing the carb, I only use the pre-mixed 50:1 ethanol free in my 20 yr old weed wacker. 20 yr old lawn mower and WW have never run better. Save yourself the headaches and use pure gas.

 

[Broke Boater]

On a side note.....my Stihls love a good mixture of Leaded 110 Race Fuel!  Nothing like the smell and sound of a 2-stroke burning lead gasoline on a Saturday morning while running the weed eater or cutting firewood!

Josh
[/quote]

Yep,  back in the early 70's buying 100 oct lead based pump gas at the local Texaco station, we were able to add another 15-18 degrees advance to our engines without damaging them. The Olds 455 in my Kona jetboat ran so smooth,,,gregg

 

[PJ Stough]

Yes, but how many little bottles of Heet did you add? To get to a 10% alcohol solution in an 18 gallon tank would take 1.8 gallons of Heet. 1 bottle of Heet is a minuscule amount of alcohol. You added it to prevent gas line freeze up but not to the lawnmower stored for the winter. Ethanol causes gas to degrade several times faster so don't ever put in an engine that is stored for several months.

Yes, usually one can of Heet was enough to absorb the water in the gas tank, which shows that even in the "old days" there was very little water getting into the gas tank, so the idea that with 1.8 gallons of ethanol in an 18 gallon gas tank it could absorb a lot more water before there would be the dreaded phase separation.

As far as ethanol causing gas to degrade several times faster than pure gas, I have never seen that in using ethanol blended gasoline since it was first available in the 80s.  I have left ethanol blended gasoline in lawn mowers over the winter, and have left ethanol blended gasoline in cars over the winter for the last 11 years and had no issues using them in the spring.  I guess I am just lucky.

 

[PJ Stough]

The use of ethanol as a fuel makes absolutely no sense.  I say this as a chemical engineer that worked at a gasohol plant that was converted to produce other products after the last gasohol downturn.

1 - The big problem nobody talks about.  We are using our food source to power our vehicles!  Not only do humans consume corn but this is the primary feed for cattle, hogs, chickens, etc.  Corn is also a very "water intensive" crop to grow.  Feel free to argue electric versus gasoline / diesel powered cars but using our food source for fuel is idiocy...

Josh

I am sure you know that the corn used to make ethanol is not the same corn used for human consumption.

Also, when ethanol is made from corn, only the starch is removed from the corn.  The remaining DDGs(dried distillers grains) are sold to live stock feeding operations.

My biggest issue with ethanol production is the amount of water that it takes. 

I think the worries about ethanol will be over before long as the ethanol industry is on its way out.

 

[Broke Boater]

The Fed's lead by Agricultural lobbyist are pushing E15 nationwide including marinas. The boating industry and owners across the country are fighting this, for good reasons too. The ugly truth is ethanol in our gas is a joke, it's sheet fuel to start with, the carbon footprint just to harvest, transport, refine is greater the small percentage of cleaning up of emissions touted by those pushing for clean air. The biggest Trojan Horse of this, is without subsidies from the government, the cost of ethanol would drive the fuel prices high, follow the money boys. The start of this conversation was about running a e10, and I said run it. But with the caveat that storing a genset for longer periods take some proven steps to provide some safeguards using e10 in small engines. If you want to mix alcohol and water in your fuel tankers have it, lol, sheet, dump some JD in there too. I've had this discussion many times with my Sister and BIL, they farm 3000 acres in N. Minn. In fact my entire family has came off two farms there in that small town along the Canadian boarder, my Mother's side and Fathers side. All had raised Corn, Soybean, Wheat, sometimes Sunflowers. It always ends up pretty much ' you go to your Church and I'll go to mine ' ,,,gregg

 

[Lou Schneider]

My biggest issue with ethanol production is the amount of water that it takes. 

I think the worries about ethanol will be over before long as the ethanol industry is on its way out.

My biggest issues with ethanol are twofold.  One, the industrial corn used in ethanol displaced enough food grade corn production that it caused a world wide corn shortage and steeply higher prices for a primary dietary staple of some the poorest people in Mexico and elsewhere.  One byproduct of this is more hungry people seeking entry into the U.S.

Not to mention what higher feed costs did to meat and poultry prices in this country.  Remember when you could get a decent cut of beef for $1.99/lb?

Second, ethanol is a net energy loss.  Forget about ethanol having less energy per gallon than gasoline so vehicles using ethanol laced fuel need to burn more of it.  It takes more hydrocarbon energy to grow, harvest and process ethanol than it produces.

We would have been better off just sending payoff money directly to the corn farmers.

 

[lynnmor]

One would get a real education if they operated a snowmobile in the wilds of Maine and the very complex triple carburetors plugged up.  These greedy beneficiaries don?t give a rats rear if they freeze people.  Yes, I had multiple episodes of this crazy nonsense.  Snowmobiles operators buy their gas at backcountry facilities where only above ground tanks are permitted.  Being compelled to buy a useless product so that some square states benefit at the expense of others, is a swamp that needs drained.

 

[PJ Stough]

One would get a real education if they operated a snowmobile in the wilds of Maine and the very complex triple carburetors plugged up.  These greedy beneficiaries don?t give a rats rear if they freeze people.  Yes, I had multiple episodes of this crazy nonsense.  Snowmobiles operators buy their gas at backcountry facilities where only above ground tanks are permitted.  Being compelled to buy a useless product so that some square states benefit at the expense of others, is a swamp that needs drained.

My question would be, what kind of cheap materials are snowmobile manufacturers using to make engines that are so susceptible to damage by the use of 10% ethanol in gasoline, if in fact the problem is actually the ethanol in the gasoline? Knowing that snowmobilers are going to be using gasoline with 10% ethanol, you would think that the engine manufacturers would make engines that would not be affected by the ethanol, but the fact they dont, seems to me that they know that a certain percentage of owners are going to be stranded at one time or another in some very cold weather, but yet they continue to make engines from inferior material.  Your argument should be with the engine manufacturers, and not ethanol producers, or government regulators.

 

[catblaster]

    I have a box full of small engine carburetors and a milk crate full of 4 barrels that have been corroded by ethanol fuel, plus 4 very nice carter fuel pumps that are corroded inside from it.
    Where I live in Florida the humidity is always high and true that ethanol absorbs water that is also part of the problem since it caused phase separation.  What doesnt seem to be affected as much is mixed fuel for chainsaws when they are in a sealed container.
    The key to using it is like others said, run the carb dry or drain it everytime. That is good advice for any engine running gasoline with a carb.

 

[whiteva]

MY 2 cents...

All my toys use only non-E fuel along with a good stabilizer.

The gasser MH  while on a trip, I don't add anything as we travel using e-fuel. On the return trip I wait for the last tank of e-fuel then add a bottle of Sta-Bil and also run the generator just to be sure the genset has good gas into the carb. The MH may sit for a few weeks or even a month or two with no problem so far. I am not sure if this makes a big difference or not but my friends that have adopted this procedure agree that it is just a good idea.

I have seen many generator carbs that have used plain e-fuel and left sitting for months. What I have found is the small passages inside the carb have closed up. They look like the metal has corroded from moisture. $300.00 plus for new carb or use an additive... + run the genset every month under a load.

Don't try to confuse me with facts....MY mind is made up! 

Cheers

 

[lynnmor]

My question would be, what kind of cheap materials are snowmobile manufacturers using to make engines that are so susceptible to damage by the use of 10% ethanol in gasoline, if in fact the problem is actually the ethanol in the gasoline? Knowing that snowmobilers are going to be using gasoline with 10% ethanol, you would think that the engine manufacturers would make engines that would not be affected by the ethanol, but the fact they dont, seems to me that they know that a certain percentage of owners are going to be stranded at one time or another in some very cold weather, but yet they continue to make engines from inferior material.  Your argument should be with the engine manufacturers, and not ethanol producers, or government regulators.

Not the materials, what happens is the ethanol mixes with the water and crud on the bottom of storage tanks and then pumped into the snowmobiles.  Northern Maine was supplied with fuel from Canada that didn't have your Iowa charity juice till just a few years ago.  When that was finally pushed on them they poisoned a considerable number of snowmobiles as well as other gas powered engines.  The crud clogged fuel filters and carburetor jets.  While I don't have two stroke snowmobiles, those that did actually experienced total engine failures because, as you know, a two stroke going lean can melt a piston.  I am not arguing, just stating facts about this incredible scam.

 

[Broke Boater]

Charity Juice, hahaha, I'm using that one on my Sister and BIL, thanks,,,gregg

 

[PJ Stough]

Not the materials, what happens is the ethanol mixes with the water and crud on the bottom of storage tanks and then pumped into the snowmobiles.  Northern Maine was supplied with fuel from Canada that didn't have your Iowa charity juice till just a few years ago.  When that was finally pushed on them they poisoned a considerable number of snowmobiles as well as other gas powered engines.  The crud clogged fuel filters and carburetor jets.  While I don't have two stroke snowmobiles, those that did actually experienced total engine failures because, as you know, a two stroke going lean can melt a piston.  I am not arguing, just stating facts about this incredible scam.

Ethanol does not mix with water.  It absorbs water until it can absorb no more.  If a storage tank has more water in it than the alcohol can absorb, imagine how much water would be in it if it were straight gasoline.