Tiffin vs Entegra

[zmotorsports]

Lots of very good and insightful information has been given here on both hydronic heating and tag axles so I won't rehash them.

Our first unit was a 30' gasser and then we stepped to an older used DP taking what we had learned in the previous six years of dragging around a 24' enclosed trailer behind that unit.  We bought a 38' DP and used it to tow our 24' enclosed trailer around for seven years.  We went from a 38' DP to a 40' DP with a tag axle that we have had for eight years now.  We had a bit more exterior storage in the 38 footer than we do in our 40 footer.  I knew that going into the deal and just decided to live with it.  We are not full-timers, my wife and I are only in our mid-40's and purchased this coach when we were in our late 30's. 

I had a very specific list of "Needs" and "Wants" for this coach, our reasoning being just in case it is our last coach we are able to purchase, hopefully we will be able to go one more but if not I love our current coach.  On the "Needs" list was a tag axle due to the weight of the enclosed trailer we were towing for racing(24' at the time) and also knowing I wanted a larger enclosed trailer after purchasing a new coach (now a 26' enclosed).  My trailer(s) had a lot of tongue weight and I wanted the tag for this reason even though our 38' DP towed our 24' enclosed trailer very well around most of the western U.S.  Even our little 30' gasser towed the same 24' enclosed trailer around much of the western U.S. as well.

I also wanted the Aqua-Hot system because we were using our coach at the time for snowmobiling and after being in several coaches on the mountain in mid-teen degree temperatures I was quite impressed with the uniform and even dispersement of the heat.

All that said, we no longer race now but still haul our enclosed trailer with the Jeep and Harley and it is heavier than when we were racing so I am still happy with the tag axle and would do it all over again.  Also for the hydronic heating, I would do it all over again as well because even though we no longer snowmobile we do use the coach until late November and then start again in early February and the temps can be still quite cold.  The LP furnace I am sure would be sufficient for our use but I will never have another coach without Aqua-Hot.

I will admit that finding all of this in a 40' coach was very difficult, had I been able to find it in a 38 footer I would have even been more happy because we really didn't need the extra length.  When we were looking we almost went to a 42' because in addition to the tag axle and Aqua-Hot options, I also wanted a 10kw minimum genset and triple roof airs which are next to impossible to find on a "used" 40 foot coach.  It would have been different had we been ordering a coach from the factory but we were looking in the 5-7 year old market and stumbled across this 4 year old at the time 40 foot coach with EVERYTHING on our "Needs" and "Wants" lists with the exception of the Cummins ISM engine/Allison 4000 transmission, but I am very happy with the ISL/3000 combo.

As far as Tiffin vs. Entegra I would say the Entegra is a bit more upscale in many aspects and would be on my short list of a next coach but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Tiffin coaches, especially the Allegro Bus and Zephyr.

Mike.

 

[bucks2]

I don't know what aim low means, but apparently that means not buying what one wants.

I'm also not sure what you mean by spending more money than they need to, changing rigs later on...but apparently that means planning to fail.

This is the first time I have heard of this "prevalent thought pattern.'"

You said, ""I'm gonna just say I don't believe I'm smart enough to buy only one and be done," That, in a nutshell, is planning to fail. Instead, think like the little train engine that we read stories to our kids/grandkids about, "I think I can, I think I can."

Everytime you buy and sell an RV, unless you are extremely lucky, you lose money. Sales tax, registration fees, etc all cost you money. If you buy a rig that you'll be happy with for the next 10, 15 or 20 years, then you won't pay those charges again and again like you would buying another rig.

Read the number of posts on here of people saying that no one gets it right the first time. Those words, or ones like them come up almost every time a newcomer asks what rig they should buy. If you haven't seen that yet, you haven't read enough posts. People often talk about what they want on their next rig. Not new inventions, but things that are available now that they thought they would do without until they bought their "dream" rig.

Who here is willing to admit they got married with the idea that their next spouse would have a better sense of humor or would be taller? Weren't many able to get it right the first time? Did they get married with the idea that this was a learning marriage and they'd know more when they went to get married again? I'll bet there are even some people here who didn't live with their spouse before they got married and moved in together. What a concept! I know many people who've lived in the same house for 20 or more years. Were those people not able to get it right? Why do people think that they need to practice buying RV's?

Ken

 

[Becks]

Like Mike above, when we were shopping for a bigger coach some years back are needs and wants were very much the same as his. The only thing different is we fulltime so we did want more than 40 foot. Otherwise our must have's were the same. Yes 500 hp would have been nice, however we are very happy with our choice.

 

[jlazar]

Thanks to all for your inputs and comments.  One thing I like about this forum is that folks are willing to share their experiences and give advice without being judgmental of other posters.  In other words, I like the way you keep it on topic.

Let me add a little more background that may help you see where we are in the process.  I am 66 and my wife is 65.  We would like to sell the house and full-time until some point in our late 70s.  I spent 24 years in the Air Force and we had overseas assignments.  I have seen so much of this world but so little of the good old US.  We want a nice slow journey seeing this country and making new friends.

We have only had one RV.  A 37 ft Tiffin Allegro Bay, 8.1L Workhorse 24.  We loved it and loved the RV lifestyle.  We only had the RV a little over a year (sold to stay home and care for my wife's mother) but made trips from San Antonio to Las Vegas/Reno, San Francisco, Yosemite, LA and back.  Another trip from SA to Cleveland, Ohio, for the National Senior Games.  Another trip from SA to Hilton Head.  So in one year we literally traveled from coast to coast and put about 10K miles on the RV.  During that time we experienced the joys of RVing but also spent time in several repair shops.  So our eyes are wide open as far as what we want to get into.

When we full time, we envision traveling no more than 300 miles in a single day.  400 would be the exception.  Would expect every stop to be a minimum of 2-3 days while we look around.  May even get into some work camping at a national park.  Expect to travel from April through October.  Spend Nov (Thanksgiving) and Dec (Christmas - sorry, I know that is not a politically correct term) in SA to be near my daughter's family and the grandsons.  Spend Jan-Mar in Port Aransas on the beach and filling up on fish/shrimp.

From our previous experience (and age), we think we have a very good idea what we like in a lifestyle and what we want in a MH.  We believe we can find the coach we want that meets our needs and will satisfy them for 10 yrs if we last that long.

Our must haves would be:
DP
40-42 ft
4 slides (or 3 with a super)
All electric
Residential refrig
Sofa Bed
1-2 recliners
Dinette and chairs
Stackable washer and dryer
Central vacuum

Things that would be ok but not required:
Fireplace
Heated floors (may be required with all electric?)
Bath and a half

Things we definitely don't want:
Dishwasher
Oven

Things I still have from old RV:
TST TPMS
2012 Honda CRV with tow bracket, M&G brake and toad charger
Ladder, dishes, small Weber electric grill, linens, fluids, and other misc items related to RVing.

Things I am trying to learn more about:
Advantage if any of tag axle and IFS
Operation and care of a diesel (I have never owned one)

Hope the above adds some perspective to my original posting.  Again, appreciate all your inputs so far and look forward to any additional insights or things I should consider.

 

[RodgerS]

"I'm gonna just say I don't believe I'm smart enough to buy only one and be done," That, in a nutshell, is planning to fail.

No, it is not, that is an allowance for continued learning and experiences.

Frankly it feels like you have some projection issues going on over some of your past decisions that I would rather you not involve me in.

 

[zmotorsports]

Thanks to all for your inputs and comments.  One thing I like about this forum is that folks are willing to share their experiences and give advice without being judgmental of other posters.  In other words, I like the way you keep it on topic.

Let me add a little more background that may help you see where we are in the process.  I am 66 and my wife is 65.  We would like to sell the house and full-time until some point in our late 70s.  I spent 24 years in the Air Force and we had overseas assignments.  I have seen so much of this world but so little of the good old US.  We want a nice slow journey seeing this country and making new friends.

We have only had one RV.  A 37 ft Tiffin Allegro Bay, 8.1L Workhorse 24.  We loved it and loved the RV lifestyle.  We only had the RV a little over a year (sold to stay home and care for my wife's mother) but made trips from San Antonio to Las Vegas/Reno, San Francisco, Yosemite, LA and back.  Another trip from SA to Cleveland, Ohio, for the National Senior Games.  Another trip from SA to Hilton Head.  So in one year we literally traveled from coast to coast and put about 10K miles on the RV.  During that time we experienced the joys of RVing but also spent time in several repair shops.  So our eyes are wide open as far as what we want to get into.

When we full time, we envision traveling no more than 300 miles in a single day.  400 would be the exception.  Would expect every stop to be a minimum of 2-3 days while we look around.  May even get into some work camping at a national park.  Expect to travel from April through October.  Spend Nov (Thanksgiving) and Dec (Christmas - sorry, I know that is not a politically correct term) in SA to be near my daughter's family and the grandsons.  Spend Jan-Mar in Port Aransas on the beach and filling up on fish/shrimp.

From our previous experience (and age), we think we have a very good idea what we like in a lifestyle and what we want in a MH.  We believe we can find the coach we want that meets our needs and will satisfy them for 10 yrs if we last that long.

Our must haves would be:
DP
40-42 ft
4 slides (or 3 with a super)
All electric
Residential refrig
Sofa Bed
1-2 recliners
Dinette and chairs
Stackable washer and dryer
Central vacuum

Things that would be ok but not required:
Fireplace
Heated floors (may be required with all electric?)
Bath and a half

Things we definitely don't want:
Dishwasher
Oven

Things I still have from old RV:
TST TPMS
2012 Honda CRV with tow bracket, M&G brake and toad charger
Ladder, dishes, small Weber electric grill, linens, fluids, and other misc items related to RVing.

Things I am trying to learn more about:
Advantage if any of tag axle and IFS
Operation and care of a diesel (I have never owned one)

Hope the above adds some perspective to my original posting.  Again, appreciate all your inputs so far and look forward to any additional insights or things I should consider.

I think that looks like a very achievable list.  One comment though is I think you may find it a bit more difficult to find a bath and a half model in a 40-42 foot coach vs. a 44-45 foot units.  There are a few out there but not as many as a 45 footer.  Basically you have a similar "living" space in a 45 foot bath and a half unit as you do in for example a single bath 40 footer. 

Other comment, if full-timing and you know you will be packing a lot of "stuff", then a 40' without a tag will give you a bit more exterior storage but it may be a bit more taxing on CCC, whereas a 42 footer will most definitely have a tag axle and give you a bit more exterior storage.  There are some that have a tag merely because they wanted a tag or think they look "cool".  If you don't absolutely need a tag axle and find a coach in the 40' or even a bit under that fits your needs you will be fine.  My 38' non-tag drug the wife and I all around the western U.S. for seven years and we loved the coach but having a heavy nosed enclosed trailer was my determining factor for a tag axle.  One thing that the tag provides is not only a bit more stability in straight line driving but when encountering the little rollers in the road that raise up the nose of the coach and then as the rear goes over them the rear pitches upward and you get that slight "porpoising" affect going on, sometimes worse than others, but the tag will actually catch that first rise as the nose comes up on the coach and supports it enough to if not eliminate that porpoising it at least minimizes it dramatically.

IFS vs. solid axle is negligible.  Those that have IFS swear by it and those that don't swear at them.  More or less it ends up being what people have.  I have driven and worked on both and both have their pros and cons.  Ride quality is similar IF the manufacture uses outboard mounted air bags.  This seems to be more of a key on solid axle than whether it is solid or IFS.  Outboard mounted airbags give a bit more "sporty" feel to the coach, if that is possible.  I don't know how else to explain it, they rebound and recover quicker when outboard mounted such as around sharp canyon driving or emergency manuevers.  Hopefully you won't have to do many emergency manuevers but that IS a good test when test driving a coach. 

IFS suspensions seem to give a bit more "cushy" ride but seem as seem to give a bit more body roll in winding canyon driving than above mentioned.  Again, not saying one is better than the other, just different.  There are a few more moving parts and therefore wear items on an IFS but they will still go tens of thousands of miles trouble free, don't think you will be rebuilding the suspension every couple of years.

Mike.

 

[8Muddypaws]

I always get it right for the right now.  ;D

 

[wmpbauer]

As to the Entegra vs. Tiffin question, I've had both...and at least two years in both. I would unequivocally steer you to the Entegra Coach, regardless of the model. Chassis strength and rigidity, quality of the ride, lack of wind and banging as you drive (very quiet in the Entegra), Fit and finish, storage, insulation, and ease of service and manufacturer support plus a 2-year nose to tail warrants, each level of Entegra was IMHO, better in the Entegra Coach. Customer Service is better than Tiffin's too.

JMHO

 

[jlazar]

Thanks for the response.  Although the original post is almost a year old, our plans remain.  They have been put on the back burner due to a terminal illness in the family.  Looks like mid 2017 would be the earliest we could buy.  But still doing research and reading what you all post.  Top of my list is still a used Allegro Bus or Phaeton, Anthem or Aspire, or Dutch Star.  Also like the layout in some Winnebago Tours.

 

[hpykmpr]

Having just found this post I will make some comments that may or may not help you make up your minds. After owning a 2012 Monaco Knight for 5 years my wife and I decided to up grade and we purchased a 2016 Entegra Anthem and are in the process of moving in as we speak.Some of the things I /we have discovered while owning this coach are #1. I will never own another rear rad. diesel coach,the reason ,after 5 years I have yet to see our engine,without taking out the radiator,or removing the floor in the closet  the engine can not be seen with the exception of the bottom side. #2. I will never own another coach with a long slide out operated by cables. I do not know who came up with this as a way to move a slide out, in and out but I think it was pure stupidity that anyone ever used it.#3. We have had problems with our present coach wandering around the road ever since we bought it.I said from day one that it was too much play in the steering sector that caused it but could never convince anyone that was the cause,this included, Lazydays,Monaco,Josams.Alliance Coach and the Monaco service center in Coburg, Oregon, Everybody told me it was all within their tolerances.I found out just recently that by changing out the steering sector and putting on a different brand it all but eliminated the problem with these coaches. #4 Just one more thing and that is do not let anyone tell you that there is no difference in the way a coach with IFS  handles as compared to the solid front axle. I tried out both the Entegra Anthem and Aspire,The Tiffin Allegro Bus and the Tiffin Pheaton and I could tell before even moving the coach which ones had the IFS and yes there is a great difference in handling on the road.Hope I didn't ramble on too much.......Alan.

 

[Raccpa]

I did my research and fell in Lv with the Winnebago grand tour and bought. Looked at the entertainment but didn't Lv any of the door plans and really didn't like the dealer network. This is our 4th dp and truly Lv the grand tour. No real issues so far.

 

[Bobcote]

Looking to upgrade from a Tiffin phaeton to an Entegra anthem. Good run  down. Thanks.