To go with synthetic oil?

[Tom]

We have a recycling center here at the local marina; I put used oil in 5 gallon containers that prior oil was purchased in. Pour the oil into their collection tank, drop off old filters and any oil-soaked rags & pads into the provided containers. Pick up absorbent pads (provided free by the state).

Here in CA state law also requires any seller of oil to accept old oil for recycling.

 

[ticat900]

this thread is all aboput cummins ISL and the use of synthetic oil or not etc
NOT ABOUT where or how you dispose of old oil.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the reminder; The discussion did make a right turn. Where/when appropriate, a staff member will split/rename divergent topics, something we do daily.

FWIW we don't have threads (or threaded discussions) here

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Well I've got other uses for waste engine oil. You can soak fence posts in the waste oil. I use it sometime to get yard debris to light. I'll typically mix it will diesel and waste oil to get a long slow burning fire to burn wet debris. Some people up here use waste engine oil as rust proofing a truck frame and body just mix with diesel and spray on with a weed sprayer. There is many uses for waste oil.

 

[driftless shifter]

in my experience any oil weeps or seeps turn into leaks with synth. also there are the acidic byproducts of combustion, bad idea to leave an rv parked for the off season with your bearings bathed in a seasons worth of byproducts.
i have a 1973 air-cooled vw dune buggy/go-kart. it has a hi-performance vw type 1 beetle engine (i know...oxymoron, but it's true) 1600cc bored and stroked to 2275 cc, big cam, big valves, dual valve springs, full port and polish, getting about 170 to 180 hp out of what was a 50 hp pre ww2 design.
here's where i'm going, with this. i have a head temp gauge (air-cooled, no water temp) and oil temp gauge. head temp appears to be load related. long hills or lugging, or god forbid a lean condition (fuel air charge was actually figured into cooling equation back in the '30's). oil temps seem to be directly related to rpm. i run a stock oil cooler with an additional 72 plate mesa cooler with thermostat and a temp switch fan. without external oil cooler my oil temps could hit 240? but only at sustained rpm over 75 mph and up. head temps would stay around 300-350? sometimes higher on long grades.
did a lot of research on this and the reason appears to be what the scientists call ''shear'' the oil gets smeared and sheared as it goes through the pump, bearings, and splashing, vw used splash to help cool pistons and lube wrist pins. the shear causes the oil to heat up independent of actual work being done.

google ''bob the oil guy'' i'm using a wii can't post links.

 

[Brother Bear]

Newer engines require SJ oil, older engines may require SC or newer oils.

I'm a petroleum distributor. SJ rated oil is old and SC is older than Methuselah. I doubt that you'll find any engine newer than about 2000 for which either SC or SJ meets the requirements. Current production oils are meeting SN/RC and the SN rating has been current since at least 2007. By the bye, S = spark ignition. Therefore SC, SJ and SN are all gasoline engine specs. The newest diesel spec is CJ-4. C=compression ignition. CJ-4 is required for all tier 4 diesels. CI-4 and CI-4 plus are good for tier 3 and earlier diesels.

As to the OP, I have always run a para-synthetic in my '08 Ford 6.4 diesel. I've just changed to a full synthetic 5W-40 for the winter months. I'm already seeing the benefits in terms of cold cranking ease, etc. To be API certified, oils must go through a battery of stringent tests. It costs an oil manufacturer and/or the additive manufacturer over $500,000.00 to get any specific product API certified. If the first test fails, any redo will cost the same. One of the tests for certification of a diesel engine oil is called the Mack T-12 test. Each oil is run in an engine for a certain period of time. The top piston ring is weighed before and after each test. While our old CI-4 Plus rated 15W-40 barely meets the maximum wear allowed, our new petroleum 15W-40 CJ-4 falls well below the line. Interestingly enough, both our para-synthtetic 15W-40 and our full synthtetic 5W-40 beat the pants off of our good CJ-4 15W-40. This is an API run and certified test. When I saw the results it made a believer out of me!

OP - judge for yourself. My opinion, based on what I've presented here and practical experience, is that para-synthtetics and synthetics put money in your pocket, rather than taking it out.

 

[denmarc]

this thread is all aboput cummins ISL and the use of synthetic oil or not etc
NOT ABOUT where or how you dispose of old oil.

Might have been my fault as a reply to Foto-n-T.  I may have thrown the stick in the spokes.  I apologize.  I meant no harm. 

Tom,
I realize there are really are no "thread" rules to adhere to.  But in doing so, it does kind of help keep the original train of thought by the OP intact and helps move things along.  I'm ready for my spanking now (Two months worth of National Geographic in backside of pants).  :-[

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I'm as guilty of the thread drift as you were, Mark.  It's a pretty common occurrence in forums, especially after the original question has already been answered several times over. Mea culpa!

 

[Tom]

.... it does kind of help keep the original train of thought by the OP intact and helps move things along.

No disagreement Mark, and we try to maintain discussions "on topic" without being too heavy handed with our moderation of the forum. The nature of an RV forum and RVers is such that some divergence inevitably occurs and, as I said, forum staff will deal with it when appropriate, usually without making a big deal of it. In some cases we'll let the divergent discussion alone for a while to see where it goes, and often it comes right back on topic. Occasionally cries of "thread drift' get posted before we get to it, but are usually unnecessary.

For clarification, my "no threads or threaded discussions" comment had nothing to do with the content or subject of any messages. Some forums have their messages arranged like branches of a tree, with replies posted to a specific message, and the resulting structure is referred to as "threads" or "threaded discussions". By contrast, we have "topics" rather than threads, and replies are posted to a topic, not to a specific message.

IMO no apology or spanking is necessary.

 

[tvman44]

I use only Shell Rotella 15W40 in my 2 diesel engines. a Ford 7.3L and a MF tractor.

 

[denmarc]

IMO no apology or spanking is necessary.

Tom,
I get your drift for the explanation, and thank you.  Gary, I guess you and I are not in time out?

Does that mean I can remove the National Geographics now?  They are a bit uncomfortable.  :-[

 

[farmerbrown]

Synthetic oils can loosen accumulated sludge in older engines and soften seals in engines built before around 1999. Your ISL is newer than that and has seals & gaskets designed with modern oils in mind. I would not be concerned about that aspect.


Synthetic is good, but I prefer to change my engine oil annually, so it's not really cost effective for me. Would hate to throw away 28 qts of expensive synthetic oil every year, but cannot get comfortable with letting dirty oil sit in the crankcase for more than 12 months. I think a good quality dino oil, changed annually, is fine for an RV engine (I use Shell Rotella 15W40).

I do use synthetic in my tranny and rear axle, and I extend the change interval on both of those, using fluid analysis to verify the tranny fluid is still good. Perhaps it makes no sense that I am willing to do that on the tranny, but not do the same for the engine oil, but the engine oil accumulates soot and acids, even though it is still ok as a lubricant.

  Exactly- It is common place for Diesels to get well over 500k and on up to 1,000,000 miles using such oil as Rotella T 15-40. I totally agree with Gary, for most RV's, the regular oil will have to come out before it's actually 'worn out'-syn would be maybe almost extreme overkill.
    I guess another angle would be to run synthetic and spin all new filters on and top off  about ever 8-12 mos-may could run 3yrs before dumping the oil lol ??  It could be done.

I do know that Shaffers is top line oil, I used it years ago and have a 93 f150 that run it for 10yrs before I bought it from my friend-It runs like new with 154k.
  However, we have ran gas rigs 300k on Dello 15-40- For $3 a gallon difference I guess for you it's a flip of a coin.

                                                              Take care and many Safe miles to you, FB 

 

[ironrat]

Just one clarification, oil does not wear out. What does happen is the additives get neutralized after time as well as the oil gets mixed with combustion particles and because of this is the reasons for an oil change not any so called worn out oil. So think about this, you think the oil would have less combustion contaminates because it is synthetic when running the sames fuel which is where the combustion particles come from? 

 

[ticat900]

Just one clarification, oil does not wear out. What does happen is the additives get neutralized after time as well as the oil gets mixed with combustion particles and because of this is the reasons for an oil change not any so called worn out oil. So think about this, you think the oil would have less combustion contaminates because it is synthetic when running the sames fuel which is where the combustion particles come from?

NO except that generally speaking synthetic oil has a longer lubricating life than regular oil
Synthetic oil generally speaking has a higher shear point (lubricates better)
(eg) Cummins allows 5000 more miles between changes and Allison 295 syn oil is good for over 300000 miles
were as regular ATF is only good for like 50K

 

[ironrat]

Not going to get into this with people who think they know something when they do not. No disrespect here but I have worked at an oil research facility for over twenty years and oil does not wear out, end of game, all as I said above is the reasons besides advertising points, fot changing oil, and I am not comparing syns to dino oils in this, I had said above that the best one could probably do is use what the OEM says for their engines because of the research done in real testing and not arm chair testing, but to each their own is just fine in the end.

 

[Jeff]

To reinforce what Ironrat says the closed system in transmissions and rear ends where manufacturers extend the service  time of synthetics are not the same contaminated enviroment that engines are. Allison also likes synthetics for their tolerance of higher temperatures.

 

[ticat900]

To reinforce what Ironrat says the closed system in transmissions and rear ends where manufacturers extend the service  time of synthetics are not the same contaminated enviroment that engines are. Allison also likes synthetics for their tolerance of higher temperatures.

true to a degree but it proves that synthetic oil has better life and lubricating values than regular oil
If regular oil was as good as synthetic then(eg) why would cummins give a 5000 mile longer oil change interval to synthetic oil over regular oil?

 

[Ken & Sheila]

true to a degree but it proves that synthetic oil has better life and lubricating values than regular oil
If regular oil was as good as synthetic then(eg) why would cummins give a 5000 mile longer oil change interval to synthetic oil over regular oil?

Where did you read that Cummins approves extended change intervals with Synthetic Oil. Its not on their website and the last time I asked a Cummins Rep they said no to extended change periods.

ken

 

[warsw]

No disrespect here but I have worked at an oil research facility for over twenty years and oil does not wear out, end of game, all as I said above is the reasons besides advertising points

Petroleum motor oil does wear out. All motor oil, as we use it, does. Synthetic motor oil just doesn't wear out as fast.  A petroleum base oil 15w/40 starts out as 15-weight oil. Polymers are added (molecular strands that uncoil as the temperature rises) to give it its variable viscosity and to keep the oil from thinning out as much when it gets hot. As the oil is used these strands are sheared and the oil starts to loose it's viscosity. If let to go long enough it would eventually end up being a straight 15w. I would call this as "oil wearing out".

Synthetic 15w/40 works just the opponent. It starts out as 40-weight oil and is formulated to not thin out as much as it gets cooler (no polymer is used). Synthetics do not have near the shearing affect and do not loose their viscosity near as fast. Their loss of viscosity is more from dilution than from shear. Syntheyic oils maintain their original viscosity much longer so they do not ?wear out? as fast.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Nowhere does Cummins authorize an extended oil change interval on the basis of using synthetic oils - or any other specialized oil, oil additive or filtering system. If anybody can cite a Cummins source that says something different, I would love to see it.

Cummins Service Bulletin 3810340-06 Dated May, 2007, combines pretty much all that Cummins has to say about engine oil, in simple, non-engineering terms. Read it HERE if you care to. The statement concerning use of synthetic oils is succinct and unequivocally states that the same change interval applies to synthetics and dino oils. It says:

Synthetic Oils
Use of ?synthetic engine oils? (those made with API group 3 or group 4 base stocks) is permitted subject to the same performance and viscosity limitations of petroleum (mineral) based engine oils. The same oil change intervals must be applied to synthetic oils that are applied to petroleum (mineral) based engine oils.

Cummins also agrees that oil does not "wear out" but says it gets contaminated and will no longer perform its function.

Section 6: OIL CONTAMINATION
The engine oil must be changed just before it can no longer adequately perform its intended functions within an engine. Technically, oil does not wear out, but it does become contaminated. Additives deplete to the point that the oil and additive combination can no longer satisfactorily protect the engine. Progressive contamination of the oil between drain intervals is normal, and can vary as a function of engine operation and load factor.

As to whether change of viscosity constitutes "wearing out", I leave that to the academics to debate. However, major brands of both dino and synthetic oils claim to be capable of maintaining their rated viscosity rating over the Cummins-specified change interval.