Trying to pick a tow vehicle

[mcastles]

Hi

I am new to this site, but have been very impressed with the knowledge that exists on this site.

My question is that I am upgrading my tow vehicle and I am torn between a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton platform.  I am currently using a 2005 Expedition, which is well over limit.  I didn't realize this until I ran the capacity numbers.

My current tow is a 24 ft boat with gross weight of about 6000 lbs, including trailer.  I know this is not a lot of weight, but where I tow in the northeast is full of hills, steep grades, and narrow winding roads.  I also pull about 300 miles interstate to VT. So for me, it is not about moving the load, but overall safety, stopping, etc.

I am considering an RV and/or a larger boat in the future, so I want to take that into consideration.

Can someone give me some advice on how to go forward?  I am very safety conscious and really like the 80% rule that many on this site prescribe to, so I am not opposed to the bigger truck, even diesel.  For me, the risk of an accident far outweighs saving a few thousand dollars, but I don't want to be paranoid.

thanks in advance for reply

 

[Honest John]

I imagine you will get lots of opinions on this one.  Consider the GROSS weight of the load you plan to tow first as that will have a significant impact upon the tow vehicle you select.

For me I had a Ford 3/4 ton V10 (gasoline) pickup and a 8,000 fifth wheel and it the combination was great.  The pickup was rated for towing 11,500 pounds.  Then we elected to upgrade our fifth wheel to a larger unit (specific gross weight unknown at that time).  So I decided I needed more truck and got a Chevy Duramax 3/4 ton diesel rated to tow 15,500 pounds.

The diesel upgrade provided an incredible increase in towing power!  I also got an increase in MPG.  We towed the existing fifth wheel for another year or so and then bought the bigger, heavier fifth wheel.

Diesel engines provide way more torque and pulling power.  They also cost more and a bit more to maintain.  My point is that your selection of a tow vehicle should be based upon the planned use.  Half ton trucks are generally more economical to operate, but I would never tow much of anything with a half ton gas vehicle.  three quarter ton truck have much beefier brakes, transmissions and suspension systems.  (to me that translates to safety)  But that is just my opinion.

As for me I'd go with a diesel every time.  diesel fuel currently cost more than gasoline, and my oil changes etc cost more than for a gasoline engine.  However, I absolutely need (and LOVE) the power that the Duramax engine and Allison transmission provide.

One size does not fit all.  Give serious thought to what you think you will tow and then get the vehicle that is designed to  do that job.

Good luck on your search! 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

A 3/4 ton is a much sturdier tow vehicle - stronger frame, beefier suspension, and stronger components throughout.  If you can manage it, the 3/4 ton is a better choice.

But a properly configured half ton chassis should be more than adequate for a 6000 lb tow. Some half ton pick-ups are rated as high as 10,000 lbs or more these days (though you probably won't find that configuration under an SUV).

I'm curious about your Expedition being overloaded. With the 5.4L V8 and 3.73 axle it will haul about 8600 lbs, which should leave room for passengers and gear plus a 6000 lb trailer. But if you have the 3.31 axle it's only 6000 lbs and you are maxxed out even before putting the picnic cooler in the car, let alone the wife and kids.  You might consider a rear axle change if you like the Expedition. It's a lot less cost than swapping cars.

 

[mcastles]

Thanks, Honest John.  Nice perspective.  I do hope to hear from others and their experiences and opinions.  I value that, since it makes me think of the various options.

I think your point about choosing the TV that fits the most demanding situation makes sense, and then realize that for the other times, your vehicle may be overkill.  From my view, you can't look at an average scenario since in the extremes (i.e. emergency stops, steep hills on narrow roads, getting the boat out of a steep launch) I could be putting my self, and others, at risk of an accident.

thanks again

 

[mcastles]

Thanks for the prompt reply, Gary.  I appreciate the comment on the 3/4 ton, that is how I am leaning.

For the Expedition, I am not sure of the gear, but when I looked at the GCWR, it was listed as 11500 lb, which when combined with a 6000 lb boat put me over, not to speak of the 80% rule.  Plus the hitch is rated at 6000 lbs. and there is no towing package on the truck.

Actually, I am somewhat embarrased I didn't check these things out first, but so far no harm, no foul.

 

[Derby6]

Reading your post I say 3/4 or 1 Ton.  I only add the 1 Ton because it is rated higher and pricing between the two is minimal.
This is espically true if you decide to get a 5th wheel or travel trailer instaed of an RV.  Not to mention you want a bigger boat in the future.
In this case BIGGER is better.  
These newer trucks ride pretty nice even when empty, and the crew cabs give you all the room in the world...

I am with Honest John as far as loving my diesel...But my stroker is better than his duracrap....lol  ;D

 

[mcastles]

Thanks, Derby and for making me realize that I meant to say that a travel trailer may be in my future, not RV (as in motor home)

 

[Tony_Alberta]

I'm curious about your Expedition being overloaded. With the 5.4L V8 and 3.73 axle it will haul about 8600 lbs, which should leave room for passengers and gear plus a 6000 lb trailer. But if you have the 3.31 axle it's only 6000 lbs and you are maxxed out even before putting the picnic cooler in the car, let alone the wife and kids.  You might consider a rear axle change if you like the Expedition. It's a lot less cost than swapping cars.

But I'm curious as to how the manufacturer can just change the rear axle ratio and there's a 2600 lb tow difference.

 

[Carl L]

Thanks, Honest John.  Nice perspective.  I do hope to hear from others and their experiences and opinions.  I value that, since it makes me think of the various options.

I think your point about choosing the TV that fits the most demanding situation makes sense, and then realize that for the other times, your vehicle may be overkill.  From my view, you can't look at an average scenario since in the extremes (i.e. emergency stops, steep hills on narrow roads, getting the boat out of a steep launch) I could be putting my self, and others, at risk of an accident.

Just some passing thoughts. 

The issue of steep launch ramp is handled best by  judicious use of first/reverse gear and the use of 4WD and and a set of really good M+S rated tires to cope with slimey ramp aprons.  In fact, there have been a few times when I wish I had had a front mounted winch.  :    A front mounted Class II hitch is not a bad idea either. 

I use the 80% recommendation for folks who would tow out in the mountains and plateaus of the 11 western states.  It is largely based on the altitudes and interminably long grades out here.  Gasoline engines lose 3% of rated HP for every 1,000 feet over sea level.  If you are, say, at the Grand Canyon you will be almost 7,000 feet over sea level operating with only 80% of your rated power.  I70 thru Colorado takes you up to 11,300 feet at the Eisenhower Tunnels -- 67% HP there.

Back east you have grades but not the altitudes.  A 10% safety factor is plenty.

I sincerely hope that you are not planning to double-tow a house trailer and the boat.  It is illegal in a lot of states and, in your towing circumstances, it would be a nightmare.

 

[Marc L]

4-low is also sometimes nice on slippery slopes, not so much for the extra power but that you can start really slow to avoid spinning.

 

[jje1960]

Hi

I am new to this site, but have been very impressed with the knowledge that exists on this site.

My question is that I am upgrading my tow vehicle and I am torn between a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton platform.  I am currently using a 2005 Expedition, which is well over limit.  I didn't realize this until I ran the capacity numbers.

My current tow is a 24 ft boat with gross weight of about 6000 lbs, including trailer.  I know this is not a lot of weight, but where I tow in the northeast is full of hills, steep grades, and narrow winding roads.  I also pull about 300 miles interstate to VT. So for me, it is not about moving the load, but overall safety, stopping, etc.

I am considering an RV and/or a larger boat in the future, so I want to take that into consideration.

Can someone give me some advice on how to go forward?  I am very safety conscious and really like the 80% rule that many on this site prescribe to, so I am not opposed to the bigger truck, even diesel.  For me, the risk of an accident far outweighs saving a few thousand dollars, but I don't want to be paranoid.

thanks in advance for reply

Really appreciated our rig last weekend... so will post.  Went to Upstate NY for pop's 80th B-day, unexpected snow storm hit on Saturday evening.  Dumped freezing rain, then bout 8" of snow.  Had trailer like 70deg inside, so as one would expect, the roof ice-snow melted like crazy, running off and then creating an ice rink all around and down the driveway...  When we hooked up Monday morning (driveway is long, ash-fault, and slope down to the road) had to use 4x4 even backing into the pin box.  However, with 4x4 on, everything was fine, went down ice covered driveway with confidence, turned onto road and on our way.  About 75miles through heavy salt and deep slush in PA (nice power wash session upon arrival at home....) but never felt uncomfortable at all with our truck going through this at 55.  Anyway, it's nice to know that your truck will get you through rough challenges.

 

[mcastles]

Just some passing thoughts. 

The issue of steep launch ramp is handled best by  judicious use of first/reverse gear and the use of 4WD and and a set of really good M+S rated tires to cope with slimey ramp aprons.  In fact, there have been a few times when I wish I had had a front mounted winch.  :    A front mounted Class II hitch is not a bad idea either. 

I use the 80% recommendation for folks who would tow out in the mountains and plateaus of the 11 western states.  It is largely based on the altitudes and interminably long grades out here.  Gasoline engines lose 3% of rated HP for every 1,000 feet over sea level.  If you are, say, at the Grand Canyon you will be almost 7,000 feet over sea level operating with only 80% of your rated power.  I70 thru Colorado takes you up to 11,300 feet at the Eisenhower Tunnels -- 67% HP there.

Back east you have grades but not the altitudes.  A 10% safety factor is plenty.

I sincerely hope that you are not planning to double-tow a house trailer and the boat.  It is illegal in a lot of states and, in your towing circumstances, it would be a nightmare.

Thanks for the insights and clarifications, Carl.  I guess the safety factor I was referring to is that I personally don't think you should operate any piece of equipment at its stated limits.  I understand it is theoretically feasible, I would just prefer to have a cushion.  Maybe some paranoia on my part, but that is my comfort zone.  Also, the road conditions out here can be quite challenging, narrow, steep, sharp turns, etc. that make good low end torque a real plus.

Finally, you are correct that I don't intend to double tow.  What I meant was that in the future we are considering a travel trailer to supplement us when the boating season is over, so I wanted to make sure I have enough truck to cover a reasonable set of trailer options.  Again, thanks for the thoughtful comments.

 

[SteelHeadR]

Thanks for the insights and clarifications, Carl.  I guess the safety factor I was referring to is that I personally don't think you should operate any piece of equipment at its stated limits.  I understand it is theoretically feasible, I would just prefer to have a cushion.  Maybe some paranoia on my part, but that is my comfort zone.  Also, the road conditions out here can be quite challenging, narrow, steep, sharp turns, etc. that make good low end torque a real plus.

I'm with you on this and don't consider this as "paranoia" so much as "wisdom". 

 

[Tony_Alberta]

I sincerely hope that you are not planning to double-tow a house trailer and the boat.  It is illegal in a lot of states and, in your towing circumstances, it would be a nightmare.

In some states and provinces it is legal to tow a fifth wheel and another trailer within length limits.  However usually not in the states/provinces on and near the east coast and on the west coast. 

As far as I know it isn't legal to tow two trailers.  Unless you have the appropriate commercial/class 1 drivers license and tractor trailer rig.