Unusual (?) Water Leak Problem from (?) Water Heater

[Iconoclast]

Hi,

This is a thinking cap issue (or at least it has been so far for me...):

I originally thought I had a toilet leak, as water was pooling near the toilet, but I took the channel up that the pipes are running under to get to the toilet, shower, etc. and realized the water had followed the lines. So, I removed the inside panel for the water heater and there were clearly drops coming out of the main water connection to the unit that had pooled in various places in the little cubby the heater sits in. But as I looked closer I realized there was also water coming down two of the walls, and then I noticed the thin board that creates the ceiling (the floor of the cupboard above) was wet on the same side the walls had water on. And then I opened the cupboard above and noticed the water had apparently soaked through from below in a spot where there happened to be a glass jar and the jar had water under it with mold, but no other water anywhere else in the space (and why would there be, as there are no pipes anywhere above that?).

So, aside from the obvious question of where the water is coming from, how did it get ABOVE the water heater? Steam?

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Larry N.]

Condensation or a roof leak are my first thoughts...

 

[Iconoclast]

Well, we pulled the cold water connection to the heater (it was actively dripping there, but it's hard to tell if that's specifically where it was actually coming from) and put plumbers tape on it and rethreaded it, but after we refilled it and let it heat up for a while the leak came back...

 

[Ray-IN]

RV water heaters must have head-space to allow for water expansion. To check or create head-space/air-space in the top of the tank; first shut off water supply or water pump. Open hot and cold faucets to bleed off pressure. Then open the relief valve on water heater slowly, if water comes out there is no head space.
Continue draining off water from the relief valve until it stops. Allow relief valve to snap closed. Open water supply valve, shut off faucets.

 

[Iconoclast]

RV water heaters must have head-space to allow for water expansion. To check or create head-space/air-space in the top of the tank; first shut off water supply or water pump. Open hot and cold faucets to bleed off pressure. Then open the relief valve on water heater slowly, if water comes out there is no head space.
Continue draining off water from the relief valve until it stops. Allow relief valve to snap closed. Open water supply valve, shut off faucets.

Ah, interesting. Like how an Instant Pot works, right? Now, we did drain it (right into the freaking floor and insulation... yikes) and replace the water so we could tape the cold inlet, and while we were testing the hot water after we put it all together we noticed a LOT of rust in the hot water (and there was a ton on the nut end of the anode rod outside--which we couldn't break free). Would a build up of rust inside the tank affect that head space organically?

 

[Kirk]

Would a build up of rust inside the tank affect that head space organically?

No reason that it should. Your water heater should be drained and flushed at least annually as what you probably have is a collection of minerals from the different water sources. That is a normal thing because heating the water tends to precipitate out minerals. If it is rust then you may have a problem with the tank. If your water heater is by Suburban, it has a steel tank and if you have not kept a good anode in the tank then you may have rust and the leak is probably the tank. The air bubble in the top is a function of periodically adding a bit of air which can be done by just hooking up the city water hose and them run water through the hot water side until excess air is vented, rather than the cold. That will put air from your hose into the water heater tank. Air is water soluable to that bubble does slowly go away needs to be replaced.

a ton on the nut end of the anode rod outside--which we couldn't break free

If that means that you haven't been able to get the drain plug containing the anode out, you probably do have a tank problem.

 

[Iconoclast]

Excellent info and thank you. We bought this unit already in the park it is still in now, the owner being a landlord, not an RVr, so we got no maintenance information at all. And the packet that came with the unit from the original sale was extremely generic, not even giving wiring or specific equipment models, certainly no care info. So, I had zero reference for maintenance. Very much appreciate your help.

 

[Kirk]

Look for data plates on the various appliances to get make and model information and we can help you find owner's manuals and/or service manuals for them. Your water heater would likely be either from Atwood or Suburban and the same is true for the furnace. Your refrigerator is most likely either by Norcold or Dometic. There are several brands of microwave in RVs but Sharp is one of the more common ones. Also, let us know the make, model, and year of the RV we are dealing with.

 

[CharlesinGA]

If it has been leaking long, it has some serious rot in it. Doesn't take long for water to destroy walls, floors, etc.

Charles

 

[Iconoclast]

Look for data plates on the various appliances to get make and model information and we can help you find owner's manuals and/or service manuals for them. Your water heater would likely be either from Atwood or Suburban and the same is true for the furnace. Your refrigerator is most likely either by Norcold or Dometic. There are several brands of microwave in RVs but Sharp is one of the more common ones. Also, let us know the make, model, and year of the RV we are dealing with.

It's a 2015 Forest River T21RBS. And thank you, again,

 

[Iconoclast]

If it has been leaking long, it has some serious rot in it. Doesn't take long for water to destroy walls, floors, etc.

Charles

Yeah, that much I know and can only hold my breath... The tech we've asked to come out to look at it won't be here until Monday. But your comment made me think that maybe it's worth just turning it off completely (which I just did), as well as shutting off the cold water to the unit, but how to stop the leaking is not something I can wrap my head around at the moment.

 

[Kirk]

At 7 years old the drain plug should be removable if you use a socket wrench. It may help to spray the outside threds with a penetrating oil.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yeah, that much I know and can only hold my breath... The tech we've asked to come out to look at it won't be here until Monday. But your comment made me think that maybe it's worth just turning it off completely (which I just did), as well as shutting off the cold water to the unit, but how to stop the leaking is not something I can wrap my head around at the moment.

One thing that's nice is that the unit is located as low above the chassis as it can be. However, having said that, there's no design thought built in to accommodate a water leak at the water heater. Houses are usually required to have pans built at the base of water heaters now (as you probably know) and those water heaters are often already placed in locations that would make it more difficult for a leak to cause damage, like garage with a concrete floor--how difficult would it be to put some kind of small containment unit below it with a drain?

 

[Iconoclast]

At 7 years old the drain plug should be removable if you use a socket wrench. It may help to spray the outside threds with a penetrating oil.

A socket was what we were trying, but none we tried seemed to fit right, which might be because of the corrosion on that nut. Again, no information was available on even just what size the nut was (an information panel might be nice on that outside cover where there's a bunch of pretty useless information already).

 

[Kirk]

Suburban needs a 1 1/16" socket.

 

[Iconoclast]

That's right about where we were, but I don't think we had that exact size. We didn't have a choice but to just try metric/standard, whatever. Here's a picture of the present state of that nut after we knocked all the minerals and rust off of it... Not pretty.

 

[Iconoclast]

But even if we could break it free and replace it, don't the symptoms suggest the entire unit is hosed? I still don't even know where the water is coming from. It's not the threads on the cold inlet (cuz they are in fine shape and now taped), but somewhere on the inside side of the unit water is leaking that shows up right at/below that inlet--cracked housing, whatever.

 

[Iconoclast]

And there's another design issue: why are there so many water connections (including multiple Ts and Ls with very questionable material quality) on the inside of a unit that pulls in, heats and delivers water all placed on the inside side of the unit where if **** goes bad it screws all the local wood?

 

[p38fln]

And there's another design issue: why are there so many water connections (including multiple Ts and Ls with very questionable material quality) on the inside of a unit that pulls in, heats and delivers water all placed on the inside side of the unit where if **** goes bad it screws all the local wood?

The RV manufacturer figures it will last through the warranty period and become your problem not theirs. They can always accuse you of failing to winterize properly if it does start leaking during the warranty. You should have seen the zig zag 90 degree to 90 degree connections just going from the fresh water tank to the water pump on mine before I ripped it all out. I think there were 5x90 degree bends in less than a foot. I had to rip all of mine out, it was polybutylene (PEXs older brother) and with PB it's not a question of if it will leak or not, just when it will leak.

 

[Kirk]

But even if we could break it free and replace it, don't the symptoms suggest the entire unit is hosed? I still don't even know where the water is coming from.

If you are certain that the leak is from the water heater then at least the tank will need to be replaced, if not the entire water heater. No matter which you do, it would still be a good idea to drain the water heater before you attempt to use it. You can probably get most of the water out by opening the low point drains and then open the pressure relief valve to allow air into the tank. I would get the proper size socket and some penetrating oil first to see if you can get the plug out. I don't understand why a water heater that is 7 years old looks like that? My 2012 travel trailer also has a Suburban water heater and shows some age but nothing like what you have.

all placed on the inside side of the unit where if **** goes bad it screws all the local wood?

Plumbing is usually in the walls or the cabinets to improve the appearance of the interior of the RV, just as is true in a stick house. Most of the materials that are used are the same as used in house construction. In most cases the plumbing is routed to minimize the amount of materials needed. In my experience, leaks are not common and rarely in places other than connections to fixtures. That all changes if the system is allowed to freeze up with no winterization and water in the lines.