Upcoming Class A purchase

[DUSM0518]

My wife and I have been RVing for about 15 years. Went from bumper pull Passport to a Grand Design 5th wheel. We are considering going to a Class A and I have to say the price of the diesel models are quite a bit out of our budget. We are considering a gas model but would like to know if we are going to be greatly disappointed in the performance. We plan to do more traveling with the Class A if we get one but dont want to get caught in the problem of performance regret when we start traveling. The toad isnt a big influence either. We have Jeep Wrangler that we will be pulling so the Class A gas will pull it just fine I believe.
I have noticed a big discrepancy in the number of used gas models as opposed to the number of used diesels on the market.

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

I have a 34 ft Class A and pull a box trailer with 2 street motrorcycles at about 4000 lbs. My V10 is adequate for the task and I've been through the Ozark Mts with it, but nothihg like the Continental Divide...
I have been more than happy with the power, reliability, and maintenance costs.

 

[DUSM0518]

I have a 34 ft Class A and pull a box trailer with 2 street motrorcycles at about 4000 lbs. My V10 is adequate for the task and I've been through the Ozark Mts with it, but nothihg like the Continental Divide...
I have been more than happy with the power, reliability, and maintenance costs.

Thank you...Yeah we dont have any extreme adventure plans for sure. Too old for that.

 

[Onyrlef]

We have a Class A with V10 which does ok for us but we’re not going far or for long. Were I planning to do a lot of traveling there’s no way I’d be doing it in a gas chassis, none.

 

[DUSM0518]

We have a Class A with V10 which does ok for us but we’re not going far or for long. Were I planning to do a lot of traveling there’s no way I’d be doing it in a gas chassis, none.

Thank you...would you not do it because of performance or because of longevity of a diesel engine??

 

[Isaac-1]

Be aware some 4 door Jeep Wranglers weigh in over 5,000 pound which is the common towing capacity limit for most Gas Class A coaches (some are less), the heaviest one I see when searching curb weights is 5287 for a 4 door model. As to if you will be happy with a gas Class A, I can tell you we are, and have a small 28 ft Class A with 325 HP 8.1L engine and usually tow a 2,300 pound Toyota Yaris, it is a little slow in the mountains, but generally can stay at 45 mph or faster even on mountain passes. The newer Ford F53 post 2016 with 6 speed transmission has even more pulling power, I tried to keep up with one of similar size to our Workhorse coach crossing the pass outside Laramie, Wyoming a few years ago, my foot was on the floor and he was slowly pulling away from me. (neither one of us were pulling a TOAD at the time)

 

[DUSM0518]

Wow I just looked up the curb weight on my 1995 Wrangler again. In one place it said it weighed in at just under 2,000. Now I see where it weighs in at just over 2,900. Back to the drawing board for a toad...

 

[DonTom]

We are considering a gas model but would like to know if we are going to be greatly disappointed in the performance.

The new Ford V8 7.3L gasoline does a great job of going up the hills with its six-speed auto tranny in my Class A.

But so does the MPFI 7.4L in my Class C with the four-speed auto tranny.

But both of my RVs are quite short. And no toad. I only take a 320 LBs electric motorcycle with me, carried on the hitch (not towed).

While in a larger rig a large diesel will most likely perform even better, I doubt you will be disappointed with the Ford V8. It's larger, more powerful, more torque and a better engine all the way around than the V-10. More efficient, and even the V-10 has powered a lot of large rigs for many years and many people are happy with those. But I always tried to avoid the Ford gas V-10. IMAO, anything less than 7L does NOT belong in ANY motorhome. I thought the V-10 was a stupid design when I first heard about it, but countless people here will probably disagree with me, which will be nothing new.


-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Professor David]

I have to say the price of the diesel models are quite a bit out of our budget

We have a gas class A and really enjoy it. We also did not want to over spend on an RV since we have a lot of other interests and expenses in our lives. We have traveled across the Rockies several times without problems. We aren't even the slowest vehicle on the road going up over passes. We are not in any big hurry these days and certainly don't have to be the fastest on the road. The biggest problem with our gas class A is the ride, which is not good on bad roads. Ride is good on decent roads. We do our best to travel on the best roads possible, which isn't always possible or predictable. Towing capacity on most class As is around 5K. We flat pull a 2012 CRV with zero problem...in fact, we hardly know it is there going up steep passes.

 

[Isaac-1]

Wow I just looked up the curb weight on my 1995 Wrangler again. In one place it said it weighed in at just under 2,000. Now I see where it weighs in at just over 2,900. Back to the drawing board for a toad...

2,900 pounds for a Wrangler is not bad, my wife's 2017 Jeep Cherokee weighs in a 4,300 pounds and I can really tell it is back there when towing it behind the motorhome compared to our 2,300 pound Yaris.

 

[Onyrlef]

Thank you...would you not do it because of performance or because of longevity of a diesel engine??

Gas chassis coaches ride much rougher ( think school bus) than their diesel counterparts, towing capacity is usually about 1/2 that of a diesel. On the other hand diesels are more expensive and difficult ( relatively speaking) to maintain. The newer V8's seem to be an improvement over the V10 and at the risk of being clapped in stocks and left to public humiliation in the forum public square, in only my opinion, V10 gas chassis class A coaches at or above the 18k gvwr/ 23k gcvwr ( 30'+) are grossly underpowered and most have inadequate OEM suspensions. The same V10 engine Ford put in a p/u truck with a 1 ton payload and ~ 19k lb gcvwr is put in a f53 ( really a glorified school bus chassis) with an 18k lb gvwr, ie., you're towing your own weight all the time.
I have improved the ride on mine somewhat with air bags, but on anything other than smooth roads it can still be like riding a runaway chuck wagon.
I'd highly recommend you spend some time behind the wheel of both a gas chassis and a diesel chassis if you can, nothing surpasses experience, which in most cases is what you get right after you needed it.

 

[Larry N.]

Thank you...would you not do it because of performance or because of longevity of a diesel engine??

As Onyrlef above says, the ride/comfort level in a gas class A is well short of the typical DP (Diesel Pusher). We had a 2010 Bounder on the F-53 chassis, and it was a decent coach, and performance was fine through the Rockies, almost as good as the two DPs I've had since, even with a Jeep toad. But long haul comfort wasn't up to either the Beaver or Ventana by quite a margin, both in cockpit noise and in comfort. That air suspension, lower CG and the much shorter rear overhang (affected by crosswinds) all contributed to greater comfort.

In addition, the hydronic heating system is (to me) worth a lot, also. Aqua Hot on the Beaver and Oasis on the Newmar Ventana provided constant hot water for as long as water/sewer had capacity -- on full hookups you could literally shower all day -- and just driving also heated the water with the boiler turned off. These systems also provide furnace heat, with individual registers (hot water heat exchanger) in various spots, MUCH quieter than RV furnaces, and including a register in the water bay set to maintain 45º F, and more even heat through the coach.

Both list the diesel boiler as the primary heat source, but both also had electric "burners" so that, except when very cold the electric was plenty when on shore power, and the diesel worked well when boondocking.

For just wondering around Colorado the gasser was fine, but for longer haul such as Denver to Baltimore or Oregon or Canada the improved comfort level of the DP left us less tired at the end of each day, and we were able to deal with very strong crosswinds that would have had us pull off and wait in the gasser.

The other side of the coin, of course, is that maintenance cost somewhat more in the DP, but not really a whole lot more, perhaps 25% or so during the year, perhaps a bit less. Of course any servicing did cost more but the need was usually less frequent.

On the Beaver (525 HP CAT C-13 engine, 50,000 lb max gross) we only got about 5.5, perhaps 6.0 mpg but in the Ventana we ranged from 8.0 to 10.4, depending on wind and terrain, cruising at 65 mph on both coaches, vs 6.5-7.5 mpg on the Bounder, also at 65 mph.

With better load capacity too, on the DPs, all the above was what made us prefer the DP. Hope this helps.

 

[TheBar]

A lot of people are all about the journey, other people are all about the destination. If you are a driver get a DP. If you are a tourist it doesn't matter how you get there.

 

[DUSM0518]

As Onyrlef above says, the ride/comfort level in a gas class A is well short of the typical DP (Diesel Pusher). We had a 2010 Bounder on the F-53 chassis, and it was a decent coach, and performance was fine through the Rockies, almost as good as the two DPs I've had since, even with a Jeep toad. But long haul comfort wasn't up to either the Beaver or Ventana by quite a margin, both in cockpit noise and in comfort. That air suspension, lower CG and the much shorter rear overhang (affected by crosswinds) all contributed to greater comfort.

In addition, the hydronic heating system is (to me) worth a lot, also. Aqua Hot on the Beaver and Oasis on the Newmar Ventana provided constant hot water for as long as water/sewer had capacity -- on full hookups you could literally shower all day -- and just driving also heated the water with the boiler turned off. These systems also provide furnace heat, with individual registers (hot water heat exchanger) in various spots, MUCH quieter than RV furnaces, and including a register in the water bay set to maintain 45º F, and more even heat through the coach.

Both list the diesel boiler as the primary heat source, but both also had electric "burners" so that, except when very cold the electric was plenty when on shore power, and the diesel worked well when boondocking.

For just wondering around Colorado the gasser was fine, but for longer haul such as Denver to Baltimore or Oregon or Canada the improved comfort level of the DP left us less tired at the end of each day, and we were able to deal with very strong crosswinds that would have had us pull off and wait in the gasser.

The other side of the coin, of course, is that maintenance cost somewhat more in the DP, but not really a whole lot more, perhaps 25% or so during the year, perhaps a bit less. Of course any servicing did cost more but the need was usually less frequent.

On the Beaver (525 HP CAT C-13 engine, 50,000 lb max gross) we only got about 5.5, perhaps 6.0 mpg but in the Ventana we ranged from 8.0 to 10.4, depending on wind and terrain, cruising at 65 mph on both coaches, vs 6.5-7.5 mpg on the Bounder, also at 65 mph.

With better load capacity too, on the DPs, all the above was what made us prefer the DP. Hope this helps.

Wow..thank you for all of the info. That is alot of info to process and you have given me alot to research on some of the units I have been looking at. All of you folks are great resources. Maybe one of these days I can be as useful on here.

 

[SeilerBird]

I have owned both gassers and DPs.
DPs cost more to begin with but are worth more reselling it. Tie
DPs have higher maintenance costs but gassers need more oil changes. Tie
Gassers get better mpg but diesel is more expensive at the pump. Tie
DPs are quieter when driving. DP wins

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Before we upgraded to a DP, we traveled coast to coast in a gasser. Lived in it 5-6 months/year for several years and traveled everywhere, including Alaska. Never considered it having a "performance issue". Noisier in the cab area and somewhat rougher riding, and the lighter GVW rig was somewhat more susceptible to cross winds, but the horsepower-to-weight ratio was actually a bit better than the DP we purchased later.

This whole gas motorhome performance thing is an internet-inspired misconception. Gas engines just have to utilize higher engine rpms to get the horsepower needed to move a heavy coach. The huge low RPM torque of a big diesel is nice because it provides lot of horsepower at low rpms, but transmissions efficiently smooth out that difference. If it were just diesel engine performance that made the difference, the front diesel (FRED) motorhome would be a big seller, but few buyers favor them. They simply don't provide enough extra value vs an otherwise near-identical gas powered chassis.

There are reasons a DP is preferred but engine power is a relatively minor one. Of much greater value in a motorhome is the ride quality, rear engine location (less noise upfront), and in most cases a more robust chassis with a much larger GVWR.

There is another subtle difference related to cost. The market for gassers is targeted at a substantially lower price level than DPs, so manufacturers simply don't spend extra money on them, especially things that are readily visible. Therefore a part of the difference is often simply that the gas models was built to lower standards.

The short answer to your question is no, you won't regret the engine performance. There may be other differences you would have preferred, but we all accept have to accept some budget limitations.

 

[Kirk]

We are considering a gas model but would like to know if we are going to be greatly disappointed in the performance.

It is hard to say what you expect as satisfactory performance but if you just want a reliable coach the gas models should be just fine. We bought an F53 with the V10 engine and lived in it fulltime for 12 years and owned it a total of 14 years and 88k miles. The last that I knew the people who bought it were still using it at just over 170k miles. For the time we used it we were towing a vehicle about 95% of the time and usually it was one that weighed a bit more than 3k pounds. We didn't win many races up steep grades but it did get us everywhere we asked it to and not that far behind the diesel pushers. It cost much less to purchase and to maintain, but as Gary said, there is no motorhome ride to match the air ride found in most diesels. My son now has the newer V8 from Ford and it far outperforms the old V10. There is an aftermarket air ride for the F53 but it is expensive and I have only known 2 people who spent the money but both were very happy with the results.

Now I see where it weighs in at just over 2,900.

That would make it one of the lower weight choices and many people do tow them. Most gal motorhomes would be capable of towing it without exceeding any of the weight ratings.

 

[SC5thWheeler]

I have about the smallest DP made; it's 33 feet (true external length is 35ish).

One thing no one has mentioned is the gross weight. My max gross is 26,000 lbs. I just looked up a Newmar Gasser in the same length and it maxed out at 21,300.

With the higher weight allowance, it seems to me that the manufacturer can then use better quality materials for the interior without worrying about going too heavy. Looking around I saw a lot less particle board in diesel rigs. That Newmar gasser will be pretty sweet because that's what they make but I bet the furniture is nicer in a diesel Newmar.

My actual weight with all our stuff is 23k and I get 10 mpg towing a 4300 lb vehicle.

 

[Onyrlef]

FWIW, no one in the history of Class A RV’s ever said “I upgraded from a diesel chassis motor home to a gas chassis motorhome” and that class A towing a box trailer with a car inside that went by you on the interstate like a bat out of hell wasn’t an apparition, it was a diesel.

 

[Onyrlef]

I have about the smallest DP made; it's 33 feet (true external length is 35ish).

One thing no one has mentioned is the gross weight. My max gross is 26,000 lbs. I just looked up a Newmar Gasser in the same length and it maxed out at 21,300.

With the higher weight allowance, it seems to me that the manufacturer can then use better quality materials for the interior without worrying about going too heavy. Looking around I saw a lot less particle board in diesel rigs. That Newmar gasser will be pretty sweet because that's what they make but I bet the furniture is nicer in a diesel Newmar.

My actual weight with all our stuff is 23k and I get 10 mpg towing a 4300 lb vehicle.

You ain’t going to get anywhere near 10 mph in a 23k gcvwr gasser, unless you’re delusional. I run my gas rig in T/H whether towing or not ( because it’s actually towing itself regardless ) I avg 6.9 mpg.