Why the V10?

[KandT]

It's going to be really interesting to see what becomes of all the dead batteries of the future.. Probably like the plastic in the oceans.>>>Dan 

That's a very fair concern.  I suspect all of the manufacturers will have their own version of Tesla's closed loop system.  As you can read here they are able to separate out the elements and rebuild new batteries.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122631_tesla-launches-battery-recycling-at-nevada-gigafactory

No expert here but I believe the lead acid batteries used in today's ICE vehicles are highly recyclable as well. 

So no need to worry that the sustainable energy effort will just throw out their batteries into the nearest lake or ocean. . After all, that would kinda defeat the purpose of clean energy!

 

[muskoka guy]

Electric cars are like bonus points on your credit card. They are a great idea until everyone has one. If we all went and bought an electric car tomorrow, the system would crash. I don't get why every time someone mentions electric cars, we have to go into a 300 page discussion on the pros and cons of it. The electricity to run the car has to come from somewhere.

 

[Utclmjmpr]

Seems like the same people that want electric cars also want to shut down all the nuke power plants as well,,the cleanest source of power ever created.>>>D

 

[muskoka guy]

Unless your electric car has a V10 in it, I don't think this is the right thread. lol

 

[KandT]

I don't get why every time someone mentions electric cars, we have to go into a 300 page discussion on the pros and cons of it. The electricity to run the car has to come from somewhere.

Well we just spent pages discussing an engine that has been produced since 1997 with minuscule changes since introduction.  I thought some may find a completely new drivetrain (unthinkable a few years ago) to be an interesting topic after the V10 discussion had run its course (again).  I mean how many times can you say it is a loud bullet proof engine that revs high and is underpowered for RV's but will get the job done?  I guess we could talk about the 4 thread spark plug connection 20 years ago that would occasionally let loose.

Your point about crashing the GRID is a good one.  What's interesting is how the grid will change as rooftop solar soars in popularity.  Rather than pushing huge amounts of energy from one source out the grid will have to handle shorter distances (ideally from the roof to your home and vehicles with no grid involvement).  In the winter though it may need to push energy from the south to the north.  Time fo day rates may be needed to encourage charging during peak sunlight so the peaker plants can be run as low as possible.

I dont use credit card points so I would be interested in how they crash if everyone uses them??  They sound like a way to get a person deeper into debt - something I avoid like those loud V10's LOL :

 

[KandT]

Unless your electric car has a V10 in it, I don't think this is the right thread. lol

I have taken so much good advice from this forum, I guess I feel like sharing my passion back so others might learn a little or maybe I would learn from them. 

My understanding was that once the topic ran its course the thread was open for discussion.  I thought the OP was little hard on the V10 (calling it a garbage engine) and everyone had spoken their minds that wanted too.  BTW, it is a very good engine.

 

[muskoka guy]

Well we just spent pages discussing an engine that has been produced since 1997 with minuscule changes since introduction.  I thought some may find a completely new drivetrain (unthinkable a few years ago) to be an interesting topic after the V10 discussion had run its course (again).  I mean how many times can you say it is a loud bullet proof engine that revs high and is underpowered for RV's but will get the job done?  I guess we could talk about the 4 thread spark plug connection 20 years ago that would occasionally let loose.

Your point about crashing the GRID is a good one.  What's interesting is how the grid will change as rooftop solar soars in popularity.  Rather than pushing huge amounts of energy from one source out the grid will have to handle shorter distances (ideally from the roof to your home and vehicles with no grid involvement).  In the winter though it may need to push energy from the south to the north.  Time fo day rates may be needed to encourage charging during peak sunlight so the peaker plants can be run as low as possible.

I dont use credit card points so I would be interested in how they crash if everyone uses them??  They sound like a way to get a person deeper into debt - something I avoid like those loud V10's LOL :

No worries, its an open forum. I guess I have had the same conversation about 30 times about the electric cars. The result is always the same. The e car guys tote the benefits, and the other side totes the lack of clean energy to run them. You cant get something for nothing. My theory on the air miles and points cards is the same. When they first came out, my accountant told me to get a points card, and put everything on my credit card to get the points. Of course you have to pay off the credit card at the end of the month so you don't pay interest. That was all fine and well when only a small percent of people did this. After a while, the retailers got smart to the fact that they had to pay the credit card company extra money for all these people using credit cards just to get the points. They in turn just raised all the prices on everything to account for the loses. So you see, all the points cards did was make everyone trade cash they had in their hands, for points to be redeemed later. The real losers are the people with cash who have to pay the higher price, even though they weren't even using a credit card. Some gas stations now offer a discount for cash sales. Electric cars are the same. People think they are saving the environment because there is no emissions coming out the tailpipe. In reality, the same amount of pollution is coming from the smokestack at the electrical generating station. There is no savings. There you go, now Im at 31. I get a chuckle out of it. The two sides will never agree, so, till next time. Cheers

 

[KandT]

They in turn just raised all the prices on everything to account for the loses. So you see, all the points cards did was make everyone trade cash they had in their hands, for points to be redeemed later. The real losers are the people with cash who have to pay the higher price, even though they weren't even using a credit card.

) )  Could not agree more.  We have business and those credit card fees dont disappear!


Electric cars are the same. People think they are saving the environment because there is no emissions coming out the tailpipe. In reality, the same amount of pollution is coming from the smokestack at the electrical generating station. There is no savings.

The grid is getting cleaner and cleaner.  My friend has a 16 KW solar array on his roof and he has a Hyundai EV.  He literally charges his EV with his solar array and produces no pollution by driving.

Solar and wind now account for about 18% of electric generation.  No pollution if your vehicle is charged from those sources and rooftop solar panels are going up everywhere.  Not sure why a person would want a polluting source rather than a non polluting source to accomplish the same thing.

In April renewables passed coal in production.  https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=39992

 

[muskoka guy]

The grid is getting cleaner and cleaner.  My friend has a 16 KW solar array on his roof and he has a Hyundai EV.  He literally charges his EV with his solar array and produces no pollution by driving.

Solar and wind now account for about 18% of electric generation.  No pollution if your vehicle is charged from those sources and rooftop solar panels are going up everywhere.  Not sure why a person would want a polluting source rather than a non polluting source to accomplish the same thing.

In April renewables passed coal in production.  https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=39992

Exactly my point. It works just fine as long as everyone doesn't go get one. If they do, we need to build more power plants, and wind and solar just don't have any way to store the energy. Its a very complicated problem. Don't forget to cash in your aero points for all that "free" stuff.

 

[KandT]

Exactly my point. It works just fine as long as everyone doesn't go get one. If they do, we need to build more power plants, and wind and solar just don't have any way to store the energy. Its a very complicated problem. Don't forget to cash in your aero points for all that "free" stuff.

Right!  So the concept is that there is a 10-20 year transition plan. Everyone couldn't go and get one now because their isn't anywhere near the capacity to build them or power them.  Just like every other transition it will take time.  Right now we have an electric Tesla model 3 and a diesel F250 but in 2 years we will likely replace the F250 with a Tesla CyberTruck - in fact we ordered on already.  It's all coming together but will take a decade or 2.  Heck we have had a serious oil addiction for a hundred years and the infrastructure isn't just going to disappear. 

Solar panels are being produced in record quantities as well as wind.  The Chinese are way ahead of us. 

Many, many way to store energy are being developed.  The most interesting one to me is having a dam below a dam.  You pump water up to the first dam using solar and release it when you need it to spin the electric turbines.  Another capacity being developed is wave power.  Ocean currents can also be harvested.  Energy is all around us. 

Also in terms of storage - Vehicles that aren't in use will be optimally charged during solar hours.  All of this could be done using an app on your phone.  So you pull into a campground and are going to stay for 4 days then you set it to charge from 10-2 while you are there.  You have just become part of the solution. 

BTW...  The trimotor CyberTruck has a 500 mile range and does 0-60 in under 2.9 seconds.  It has a 3500pound payload and tows 14,000 pounds.  It's made of a stainless steel exoskeleton.  Has a unique air adjusting suspension that levels the vehicle when weight is added.
So no need to worry the electric car will be a wimpy little chevy bolt!!!

 

[thesameguy]

Seems like the same people that want electric cars also want to shut down all the nuke power plants as well,,the cleanest source of power ever created.>>>D

Well, count me in as one of the guys who wants electric cars AND nuke plants.

 

[muskoka guy]

Well, count me in as one of the guys who wants electric cars AND nuke plants.

That's the only way we are all going to get one if the timeframe is only twenty years. No other technology is capable of producing that much electricity unless you include adding more fossil fuel fired plants. Wind and solar just doesn't solve all the problems, and certainly wont be able to in the next twenty years. This is not to mention the huge upgrade the entire electrical grid would need. Very optimistic indeed.

 

[KandT]

For those following out of curiosity, I posted some facts about sustainable energy which will likely be powering our RVing.  I respect Muskoka's opinions and hey none of us have a crystal ball and definitely it is tough to predict what will happen in the next two decades.  Who knows - maybe the sustainable energy thing will be a fad and we will reopen all the closing coal plants???  I am looking at getting my Master's in sustainable energy which is why I am so interested and probably spend more than an hour a day on the subject. 

Anyways, here are some facts for those interested:


Production of Trucks in the next couple of years:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/eight-electric-pickup-truck-manufacturers-001900877.html

Rooftop solar installations hit 2 million and are expected to double by 2023

https://www.seia.org/news/united-states-surpasses-2-million-solar-installations.  --  These installations can actually reduce grid usage as the power is consumed very close to the power source.  In general, solar power isn't yet being transmitted long distances.

These giant batteries are not hopes of the future.  They are being used to take coal and natural gas fired peaker plants (plants which idle most of the day and then rev up at peak times) offline.  They are extremely cost effective in comparison to an idling speaker plant.  This one made 1/3 of its costs back in 1 year.    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/sep/27/south-australias-tesla-battery-on-track-to-make-back-a-third-of-cost-in-a-year

When the US is adding 42 gigawatts of wind in Q2 that's putting a dent in supply.  https://www.compositesworld.com/news/awea-reports-record-us-wind-farm-activity-in-q2-2019

 

[Varmonter]

We may have touched on one or 2 point
On the V-10 vs diesel. Researching
Cummins and the like. I've found
Threads stating in a 36 ft coach I could
Expect 8-10 mpg from a diesel.
  What about the v-10
I know in pulling my tt with my duramax
Sierra I get about twice the mpg as a v8 3/4
Gasser.. is it the same with the v10 in a mh.

 

[Larry N.]

When I had a 34 foot Bounder with the V-10 I got 7-8 mpg, generally.

 

[muskoka guy]

When I had a 34 foot Bounder with the V-10 I got 7-8 mpg, generally.

I agree. My previous 2000 37g Winnebago with the v 10 got about 7 to 8 mpg. My 5.9 diesel gets a little  better, but the cost of diesel is higher, so I think it averages out around the same. My diesel is heavier than my old gas rv though by about 6000 lbs.

 

[LarsMac]

We may have touched on one or 2 point
On the V-10 vs diesel. Researching
Cummins and the like. I've found
Threads stating in a 36 ft coach I could
Expect 8-10 mpg from a diesel.
  What about the v-10
I know in pulling my tt with my duramax
Sierra I get about twice the mpg as a v8 3/4
Gasser.. is it the same with the v10 in a mh.

Our Sundancer V-10 averaged 10 mpg on our 5700 mile run this year.