Adding electric service for RV/Camper

[MDPark04]

I really don't know where to start, but I am doing a research on adding electric service for RV/Camper.  Right now, I can not decide whether to mix out 50AMP, 30AMP, 20AMP, and 120v receptacle. 

One of my friend was suggesting me to go with 50AMP all the way and offer to rent a transformer reducing from 50AMP to 30AMP making it easier and "cheap" on me.  I do like the idea but I need to be sure that this is possible?  The problem is that I noticed on this site is that there are, apparently, few different 50AMP receptacles so obviously probably I should find the most common receptacle and use it then work around it?

But if you were to start your own campground with rv services, how would you do it?  How many rv sites would you do on one row? (I am doing 22 sites on one row and it is 300' long for one row.  Each site is 30'W x 60'L). 

Any idea or feedback or comment is greatly appreciated!! 
Many thanks!

 

[John From Detroit]

Depends.. I have a 20 amp branch on my storage pad (50 amp rig)  and it's all I need.  So long as wife rememers to count amps
(She's like Ms. Gabore on Green Acers, can't count to 20 amps)

 

[Ned]

50, 30, and 20A are all 110VAC outlets.  The only difference is in the power they offer.  No transformer is involved in using a 50A outlet on a 30A RV, just an adapter.  Your friend is terribly misinformed.  There is only one of each type of outlet approved for RV use.  Other types are for other applications.  You need to consult an electrician to help you plan your electrical system.

 

[Ray D]

Ned, isn't the 50 amp a 220? 110 on each side?

Someday, I'll get it all learned. Maybe not!  :

 

[Tom]

Ray,

50A is indeed a pair of 110V feeds here in the US. Here's more info in one my prior posts, together with a wiring diagram.

MDPark04, I can't fully answer your question, but I would plan on 50A/220V and 30A/110V receptacles at each site.

 

[Carl L]

But if you were to start your own campground with rv services, how would you do it?  How many rv sites would you do on one row? (I am doing 22 sites on one row and it is 300' long for one row.  Each site is 30'W x 60'L). 

Myself I would find a good electrical contractor and have him install the services that Tom described under permit.  Planning for that mixed 240V, 120V system is going to present some tricky load balancing.    It is not a DIY job for a nonprofessional.  Misjudge the load balancing and you are going to have some really unhappy customers in the hot season.  I know, I have been one of those unhappy customers at an otherwise nicely done RV park.

 

[Ned]

Ray, yes, a 50A outlet is 2 110VAC circuits.  They may be in phase (thus 0V across the hot legs) or of opposite phase (220V across the hot legs) but are not specifically designed for 220VAC service.  Either configuration will work fine with any RV that doesn't rely on there being 220V available. I've seen them wired both ways, but the opposite phase is the correct way.

 

[MDPark04]

MDPark04, I can't fully answer your question, but I would plan on 50A/220V and 30A/110V receptacles at each site.

Why both receptacles at each site??  Why not one row with 50AMP and second row with 30AMP?  Unless you are trying to tell me that there will be more campers with 30A than with 50A??  I currently have about 77 camper sites overall and it would help to know what is the most common receptacles before determining the wiring system since the wire and breaker rely on what receptacles will be used.

--

I have another friend who have few hours left on to get his license in electric field and he will be helping me with this.  He is supposed to call his instructor today about this since the RV/camper thing is new to him.  We plan to talk with my cousin Jamie who is electrician for Edwards, Inc, an industrial crane/electrical company based out of Fayetteville/Greenville NC.  I'll be in good hand at the end with right system so I am not concerned.  I am more concerned about is what is the most common receptacle especially in the future.  And how I can provide my clients if I don't have right receptacle or right power?

I'll be dropping by this camper dealer hoping they can give me some idea too.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

There is no "most common" power - larger rigs mostly have 50A systems and smaller or less elegant rigs are 30A.  The reason for having both outlets is that you never know the mix of 30 & 50 customers you are going to get and besides you can easily end up with a 30A user on a 50A site (cause that was available when he arrived or he wanted to be next to his 50A buddy).

However, you don't need extra 30A outlets everywhere - you could use all 50A outlets and supply 50-to-30 adapters when needed. We worked at a park in Washington that was all 50A and supplied the adapters. They aren't real expensive when you buy a case of them! Handing them out and getting them back is a minor nuisance, but not a big deal.

 

[Tom]

Why both receptacles at each site??  Why not one row with 50AMP and second row with 30AMP?

Your choice. Having both available at each site gives you, the campground operator, the most flexibility. I have no idea what mix of RVs you might get, and therefore have no idea how many would require 50A vs 30A.

When I pull into a campground that has only a 30A site available, I usually don't complain and get out my 30/50A adapter. However, I've seen unhappy campers and I've occasionally loaned an adapter to some folks.

Gary's suggestion of having a box of adapters available sounds like a good solution to the mix issue.

 

[BruceinFL]

If you are doing a campground, you should have 50, 30 and 20 amp female plugs. All of them can be installed in one receptacle at each site. Large motorhomes and trailers will require 50 amp service, some older motorhomes and medium size trailers/RVs will require 30 amp service and smaller trailers like pop-ups and tenters will usually require 20 amp service.

Use a professional electrician. If it's a business you'll need permits and the work will have to meet applicable codes.

 

[janpaul]

Look into the pedestals that have 50, 30, 20 amp all on the same pole with phone and cable outlets there also. They are self contained and have the breakers built right in. It makes for a nice neat compact job.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The all in one pedestals are very nice for campers, but they are also substantially more expensive to purchase and install than the simpler models.

 

[KodiakRV]

...However, you don't need extra 30A outlets everywhere - you could use all 50A outlets and supply 50-to-30 adapters when needed. We worked at a park in Washington that was all 50A and supplied the adapters. They aren't real expensive when you buy a case of them! Handing them out and getting them back is a minor nuisance, but not a big deal.

Seems like a nominal cash deposit of $10 or so would help in that regard...

 

[fredethomas]

Building codes have very specific rules for RV parks.  The calculation for power is in at least one code book I read.  The circuit breaker/switches must function a certain way.  Height above ground etc is mentioned.  You will be handling a lot of current in any RV set-up.

 

[Betty Brewer]

But if you were to start your own campground with rv services, how would you do it?  How many rv sites would you do on one row? (I am doing 22 sites on one row and it is 300' long for one row.  Each site is 30'W x 60'L). 

It does not matter to me how many sites there are in a row but  I do like it when the sites are angled.  In other words, please please do not make your sites a 90 degree angle to the street.  It is difficult to  turn into.  Pull through sites are nice.  Be sure to allow lots of room at corners and don't plant trees  at the front part of the sites.  Obstacles, decorator boulders etc can be hard to maneuver around.

I'm not sure I understand how you can get 22 sites of 30'wide in a 300' foot length.  I guess I need more detail on the configuration.

Betty

 

[Carl L]

Betty has a good point.  The sites should be angled at about 60? with the line of the access road.  Furthermore, if the sites are to be back-in the circulation of the road should be one way to take that into account.  30 foot is a good wide site so if you do not place obstacles at the site entrance you can be a bit tighter on the roadway width.

 

[Tom]

He's asking about the electrical wiring, not how to re-layout his campground. The layout may already be fixed, and he just needs to upgrade/reconfigure the electrical stuff.

 

[MDPark04]

Betty, the path around the campground is about 30' wide so this should be sufficient enough for all Rv/Campers to drive through and try to back up into the site.  11 sites are 30' X 40' (W X L) and 11 sites are 30' X 60' (for larger camper).  So if you do the math, 30' wide vs 11 sites to about 330' so ideally the end for wire would be at 300'.

Now that I have had a chance to talk with electricians, we realized that there may be a problem!  According to NEC (National Electric Code) book, here are the following:

• 1) Box can not have 100% 50AMP breakers, and the rule stated that at least 65-70% of 30Amp breakers and 30-35% of 50Amp breakers are acceptable For example, 22 50Amp breakers are not acceptable while having 15 30Amp and 7 50Amp breakers may be acceptable.
• 2) NEC doesn't recognize nor approve of the 50-to-30 adaptors despite the fact it is being sold by camper dealers or at market stores.
  

So with that said, it will be challenging to try and provide so little 50Amp when it is fact that more and more camper manufacturers are starting to use 50Amp instead of 30Amp because of more power needed in modern applicanes. 

I guess I have new question now like what happen if we end up having more campers with 50Amp than what is being provided?  Will they still be able to use the 30amp service but mind the appliances that can not be used in this reduced service??

 

[BernieD]

I'm not an electrician and I haven't read the code, but if the pedestal had both 50 and 30 amp breakers, wouldn't that meet the code? Might be a little more expensive to install but a lot less headaches and more happy campers.