Am I Being Unreasonable ?

[PancakeBill]

Guys
Not trying to sell here, but feel that we deserve another chance here.  Please move my message if I am over the line. 

 

[Tom]

Bill,

I didn't think your message was over the line. You've been around long enough and folks here know you well enough to understand your intentions. The fact that you have a new job doesn't change that.

However, what appears to be missing is an acknowledgement by LD (to Paul) that he really shouldn't have had to go through this. I'd say the same thing if it was any other dealer, as I did about the dealer I bought our coach from. Irrespective of the dealer, I don't see or hear that anything will change and the next guy will face the same craps shoot as I or any of the other folks who've been subjected to the nightmare. That's one big reason I'll take factory delivery on our next coach.

For clarification, in the case of manufactuers who normally sell through dealers, folks taking factory delivery would still order and buy from a dealer. If LD happened to be the one offering the best deal, I'm not aware of a reason a customer shouldn't order/buy from a specific dealer and take delivery at the factory to avoid the kind of issues we've discussed. Does LD offer this option to their customers, or are you only allowed to sell from inventory?

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Bill,
As one of those who has had a poor experience with an LD delivery, let me say that I believe LD actually intends to do right by their customers.  However I also feel that practice falls short of the goal more often than just once in awhile. I've met too many people with similar tales to think otherwise.

I will also state that I would still consider buying from LD again (and will surely come to you personally if we ever do so) because I think LD at its worst is no worse than a typical RV dealer and in many ways LD gives excellent customer service.  [I've bought Rvs from five different dealers, so I feel I can make a somewhat informed comparison.]  But if I did business there again, I would insist on a pre-delivery walkthrough and plan on actually taking delivery several working days later. That's no different than I would do elsewhere, though.

As in Paul's case, nobody ever acknowledged to me that my delivery was in any way poorly handled or out of the ordinary. I even wrote to Don Wallace and got a response from his personal assistance, but even then got nothing beyond "if you have a problem, let us know". Everybody at LD seems to insist that customers are always well taken care of. There seems to be a certain blindness towards the possibility that service could be any less than wonderful at all times.

 

[Ron]

Would I recommend Lazy Days again? Probably not until they can show something that would regain my confidence in them.  IMHO even after the powers to be were aware of Paul's situation it took way too long to get things fixed.  Personally I think Lazydays owes Paul some compensation for the hassle Lazydays has put him through and an apology.  Having said that would we ever purchase another RV from Lazydays?  If we were in the market we probably would if they came in with an exceptional deal.  Would we take delivery at Lazydays? Probably not but would insist on a factory delivery if we purchased a new coach or if a used coach no money would exchange hands until we were satisfied everything had been taken care of properly that was promised as part of the deal.

Frankly I felt let down by the way Paul has been treated since I was one other folks here that highly recommended Lazydays.  It won't happen again that I can assure you.

Bill I am sure you do a great job.  However, it appears to me that Lazydays needs to clean up their act in areas of service and areas that sales have no control over.  Hopefully Lazy Days will take whatever actions are necessary to correct any problems.

I just hope that Paul ends up with a clean coach that they can enjoy in the future.

 

[Carl L]

I do not usually butt in on MH territory, but one thing strikes me here:

This topic to date (Feb. 20, 2006), has 164 relies and over 1700 viewings.  I believe that is a record for the forum.  Overall the thread seems to be a devastating critique of the dealership performance of the Lazy Days dealership.  That dealership has heretofore been treated rather gently in the forum.

I wonder if any member of that dealership quite realizes what is happening here?

 

[Jim Dick]

Carl,

Good observation. I have been thinking about how this is going to affect future sales for LD. Obviously most people buying RVs are not going to read this but there will be many (1700) that do and that has got to affect their image if nothing else. I'm sure nobody here wants to ruin LDs rep but the facts speak for themselves. Things are going to have to change in the way service is conducted or more people will stop buying. Again, it is not the complete fault of the sales department. They are doing their job which is to sell. The other departments are falling down but it reflects on sales because they are the initial point of contact. I truly hope someone in charge at LD sees what has happened and can help change the operation at LD.

I have purchased two coaches from LD. The first was a disaster from day one. Service was horrible and followup was not much better. Things have improved somewhat but not much has changed since 1998! Our second purchase was much more pleasurable but all my service has been done at the manufacturers service center. I would have taken factory delivery but the coach was finished in December and Decatur, IN is much too cold at that time of year. If I ever purchase another, and it's doubtful, I will insist on factory delivery. We used to meet the same people over and over again when we went in for service. Two days worth of work would take a week. We met one couple that expected to be out of there in a couple of days. At the time they had been there for three weeks. Friends of ours purchased a new coach and spent six weeks trying to iron out all the problems. As soon as they arrived at TGO they had two more problems requiring two visits to LD. They finally traded a two month old coach for another brand. Due to some ironic circumstances, the owner was able to recoup all of the money he lost because he traded a "used" coach.

LD is not the only dealership with less than desirable service. The small dealership where I work has its problems as well though not of the same magnitude. How it is followed up is the important factor and many fall down in that respect. It's too bad deliveries do not happen without problems but it's even worse when the customer suffers from lack of communication on the company's part.

 

[Woody]

>>I would have taken factory delivery but the coach was finished in December and Decatur, IN is much too cold at that time of year. <<

What... you don't like our Indiana winters >>> lol

Woody

 

[Tom]

I wonder if any member of that dealership quite realizes what is happening here?

What's "happening here" is that Paul and several other folks have expressed their displeasure with one dealer's after-sales service. Others, like myself, have commented on similar experiences at other dealerships. This was a great opportunity for LD to redeem itself and come out smelling like a rose but, alas, all we've seen is Paul continuining to experience the same lack of attention to customer satisfaction and some well-meaning and very sincere LD employees telling us that they care for their customers. I don't doubt that LD sales folks care for their customers or that they do a good job of following up with the customer, although Paul's case might be an exception. But after-sales service appears, from the accounts we've read, to be sorely lacking.

I would add that this is not limited to RVs. I've had similar (or worse) treatment with the purchase of a boat that cost several times what my coach cost. In each case, the issue was failure at the after-sales service point.

BTW although there have been 1700 views of this topic, that doesn't mean 1700 individuals. Almost all the folks who have viewed this topic have viewed it several times, each time as new messages are posted.

 

[Ron]

This was a great opportunity for LD to redeem itself and come out smelling like a rose but, alas, all we've seen is Paul continuining to experience the same lack of attention to customer satisfaction and some well-meaning and very sincere LD employees telling us that they care for their customers. I don't doubt that LD sales folks care for their customers or that they do a good job of following up with the customer, although Paul's case might be an exception. But after-sales service appears, from the accounts we've read, to be sorely lacking.

That is the scary part.? They had a great opportunity to redeem themselves but instead, given what Paul has endured it is like they just don't seem to care.? I am quite sure they are aware that they are in a spotlight so to speak and if they are not, I would suspect it because they are hiding their heads in the Florida sand hoping bad vibes would go away.

In the past we had been advocates of Lazydays and highly recommended them based on our experience with them.? However, looking back we didn't take delivery of the Eagle in Florida but delivery was made at an American Coach Assoc. Pre-rally to a FMCA convention.? So in fact we weren't exposed to any? possible inadequacies on deliveries since the Eagle was prepped at the factory.? We did however have some service done there and had a good experience.

In any business? it has to be a team effort to achieve customer satisfaction and every member and group need to? do their part.

 

[Smoky]

Tom:

I thought it was interesting, that after the brief appearance of the LD salesman to defend himself, he never returned after he was asked to also take some accountability for what happened.

But not to be too hard on LD, I have come to the conclusion over the last two years, that all dealers are inadequate (compared to most factories) but there are sometimes individuals at a dealership who are MORE than adequate.  I think the secret may be to either avoid dealers (like we try to do by saving up our glitches for the factory to look at) or find one of these special individuals at a dealership and keep them in the loop.  We have one of those guys at a Maryland dealership.

Another observation I have made that dealers treat you like royalty until they get your money (does not say much for stimulating return business) but factories continue to show the love after the deal is done.

Just my observations, dunno if they reflect other people's experiences.

 

[TNROY]

I have been following this thread with great interest since it started. After reading the problems and the responses from LD people, I can honestly say that I will go to great lengths to avoid that dealership. I have seen their ads and often thought it would be fun to visit when in the area, but with the attitude shown by the responses I have seen here, I probably will never set foot on their lot.

I am just a rookie by many of the standards here, I am only on my second motor home. Several years ago my wife and I wanted to try the motor home life style and found a used class C rig at a price we could afford. We bought a then 10 year old rig that we knew nothing about. Having graduated to that from a pop-up we thought it was luxurious. That first dealer was great with the sales end. The service end seemed OK too, with the limited knowledge we had at the time. The walk thru at delivery was conducted just after we signed all the papers, and took a total of only 45 minutes!!! A "service tech" walked us (well ran us) thru the coach and very briefly demonstrated how things were supposed to work - then sent us off down the road to have a good time. We quickly learned of many of our mistakes, and discovered many of the areas overlooked during the walk thru. That coach taught us a lot, along with insite from others on this forum at the time.

We kept that first coach for 8 years until last summer when we decided to look for an upgrade - obviously we discovered we really like traveling in our motor home. To our advantage we have become much better educated, learned how to bargain properly, and knew what features we were unwilling to compromise on from our previous experiences.

We stumbled on a used class A (1998 Winnebago 32' Brave) at a dealer here in SW Michigan this past summer. We went to the lot to look at it on a Sunday, expecting it to be closed so as not to get hassled by salespeople. Well Go fugure, they were having an open house that day! (the free burgers and pop were really a welcome surprise). Much to our surprise the sales staff did not hassle us, but let us know they were available for any questions and to feel free to take as much time as we wanted looking over what they had. We found this unit with only 21,000 miles, and the interior looked brand new? After hunting down a sales person, he was happy to answer all our questions. We were unable to drive the unit as the batteries had been drained and wouldn't keep the unit running. To shorten the tale, we made a deal on the unit and agreed to a trade of our old unit contingent on the battery problem being solved and a favorable test drive. The only money to change hands was our refundable deposit of $100.

The following week we returned and found the unit ready for our test drive, and final delivery to us. The service department was still working on the unit when we arrived. We looked up the sales person who introduced us to the service tech who then spent over one and a half hours doing a complete walk thru pre delivery inspection and test drive. Every detail was examined, including the undercarriage and basement storage areas. Any items that could not be immediately (and I mean on the spot) repaired were written down on an "IOU" form - there were none in our case. In our case no money was requested, or papers signed until WE were satisfied with the delivery condition of the motor home. After we signed off on the delivery, we were then taken to the sales office to sign the final papers. Shortly after the sale (about a month) I had a problem with the electric steps (the motor home was purchased "as is") and called the dealer, who immediately scheduled a service appointment for the following Saturday. It seems the magnetic switch in the door had gone bad and was replaced with a new one - after about 45 minutes of troubleshooting by the tech. This was all done at no charge to me!!! The step worked when we took delivery and they would have been fully within their right to charge for the repair, but that simple repair has brought them far more favorable word of mouth from us than they ever could have charged for the repair.

Based on our limited experience, which dealer do you think I will go to first for the next purchase?? Good after sale service can pay big dividends in the future.

 

[Tom]

Tom,

Sounds like you had a good experience with that dealer. Care to tell us who that was? Wish I could say the same for the dealer we dealt with.

 

[Jim Dick]

>>I would have taken factory delivery but the coach was finished in December and Decatur, IN is much too cold at that time of year. <<

What... you don't like our Indiana winters >>> lol

Woody

Hi Woody,

After living through winters in CT for over 50 years I try to avoid any state that has considerable cold and snow. I do, however, enjoy visiting Decatur and the Fort Wayne area as well as other parts of your state in the spring and fall. The most relaxing drive I have ever done was through the farmland of Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, and Indiana. Being springtime the flowers were really great.

 

[Woody]

Hi Woody,

After living through winters in CT for over 50 years I try to avoid any state that has considerable cold and snow. I do, however, enjoy visiting Decatur and the Fort Wayne area as well as other parts of your state in the spring and fall. The most relaxing drive I have ever done was through the farmland of Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, and Indiana. Being springtime the flowers were really great.

So far this winter has been very mild, no days below zero yet and not much snow. Next time you are around Decatur pop over to Shipshewanna and check out the Amish community there. The cultural center is well worth the visit.

Woody

 

[Jim Dick]

Hi Woody,

We've done that more than once. Shippshewanna is a favorite stop, even from Decatur. We did the cultural center tour and met someone who knew people that lived in the town next to us. We had even gone to school with some of the kids.

 

[TNROY]

The GOOD dealer we found is Krenek RV of Coloma, Michigan. Just of I-94 at the Coloma exit. They have a large open lot with a large inventory of both new and used RV's. They recently expanded but left the sales staff in a temporary trailer and provided and nice (but small) service building and staff.Our experience would suggest that they are placing a proper emphasis on service AFTER the sale, a pleasant experience for the customer. They are part of the "Route 66" network and as such are able to maintain competitive prices on accessories and parts.

All in all, we felt we were dealt with fairly and honestly - can't ask for much more than that.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom.

 

[Grannie&Grumpy]

I have been watching this topic with great interests as Grumpy has been telling me about rigs he's seen on the net for sale. Hmmmm ...think he's wanting to trade. I for one would not consider doing business with LD as I've not had the best experience with our rig (LD not involved).

The class A we have now is my first experience with the MH industry. I was blissful stupid when we bought this quality (according to manufacture, salesman and dealership) rig . We've had very bad lucky with service from the dealership we bought it from. And the Manufacturer's attitude of "livable" in regards to warranty is not what I saw and bought.    To me if you truly believe you have a quality product there should be no problem with a longer warranty. Back up what you say.
Folks who see our rig tell us how much they like it...but you know what I see...all the "livable" not the the home we bought . Am I being  unreasonable ... I don't think so. If damage is not caused by us but by things installed in the rig the less I expect is repair to bring it up to what it was like before damage occurred.
Other folks have said that we would have had more problems with other manufactures but that's not the point to me. One of the major reasons for buying this rig was supposed quality and manufacture standing behind their product.

By the way .. we did our walk thru before we signed our papper work. We video taped it as we thought we might forget something.  After signing the papers we got in the rig to leave.....but there wasn't  any place for me to buckle up in the passenger seat. That took about an hour to get fixed. Went home packed the rig and drove for what should have been four hours to see my sister and brother-in-law(they full time in a 5th). We got a little lost... but got their after dark. Grumpy started connect everything up outside. I was blissful unpacking in the kitchen with my sister when we noticed a river. Seems that someone had left the stopper in the bathroom sink and facets full open. Oh and the shower on too with it pointed out in to the bathroom. This was little minor stuff but it was the begginning which has not been up hill but down hill.
So I watch the forums to see what others are going thru and how they are treated by dealerships and manufacturers. And when have come across numerous complaints wether it be on forums or by talking to folks it sends up a red flag. I grew up when service, quality, and a handshake meant something. Maybe that's why I seem unreasonable.
Grannie

 

[UK-RV]

hi guys

very brief update due to broken laptop.

left LD on Tues - nearly all sorted but didnt want to wait any longer.

will give full update when back online properly

paul

 

[Tom]

Paul,

Glad to hear you were able to leave LD. Looking forward to your full report.