I have been mulling the idea of getting a diesel pick-up to pull my trailer. I have a question to ask you guys that tow in in mountains. How do you handle the downhills? The diesels I've been looking at don't come with engine/exhaust brakes. I really don't want this thread turn into a gas/diesel argument or a make sure you truck is big enough argument either. I'm just wondering how you experienced guys and gals handle the downhills with no inherent engine braking like a gas engine does. How many have installed engine/exhaust brakes?
Downhills with diesels
- Thread starter kdbgoat
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I installed an exhaust brake on my '99 diesel F250 that had no factory retarder. Well worth it in my opinion.
Most newer diesel pick-ups have some form of engine or transmission braking, though. Are you looking at older trucks?
Most newer diesel pick-ups have some form of engine or transmission braking, though. Are you looking at older trucks?
workerdrone
Well-known member
Even my 2003 Powerstroke has the ability to engine brake, it's just changing a setting on the tuner.
I prefer to have it turned off though, since when coasting in gear it doesn't use a drop of fuel but there is some engine braking, not a lot, but some. With the braking function on it slows down so fast I don't get the mileage benefit.
In rolling hills I can get the mpg up significantly with a pulse and glide driving routine.
I prefer to have it turned off though, since when coasting in gear it doesn't use a drop of fuel but there is some engine braking, not a lot, but some. With the braking function on it slows down so fast I don't get the mileage benefit.
In rolling hills I can get the mpg up significantly with a pulse and glide driving routine.
cva61
Well-known member
A diesel varies from a gas engine in the fact there is little engine braking from a basic diesel engine.
A gas engine generates vacuum by closing the throttle butter fly. The engine braking is from the HP expended in creating that vacuum.
In most Diesels there is not a throttle that restricts the intake causing the creation of a vacuum. Yes Cummins does have this feature in recent times in some of its smaller engines'. So you get a rebound from the piston as it is on the down stroke that's nearly equal to the compression stroke.
What diesel manufactures did to achieve engine braking was to either place a restriction in the exhaust. There are several ways to do that. (A valve in the exhaust closing off the exhaust and compressing the exhaust or with a turbo that has variable vanes again creating pressure in the exhaust). Or add a compression brake (bigger displacement engines often referred to as Jake Brakes) that dumps the pressure in the combustion chamber near the top of the compression stroke. The creation of a higher pressure in the exhaust system requires HP so in creating the pressure engine braking is created.
Engines in pickups that are diesel have come to include exhaust brakes as part of the standard engine. In the not to distant past add on or aftermarket suppliers sold engine braking devices for the market. This coupled with a "TOW HAUL" mode in the transmission provides good engine braking.
My 2015 Chevy with a Duramax is an example. It has a diesel engine with a turbo exhaust that has variable vanes and is used not only to create boost when under power. But also to create engine braking for the down hill situations. It preforms very well. Just completed a run from Reno to Kansas City using mostly I 80.. With the unit on cruise it maintained 68 MPH when 62 was the speed desired. There are several descents along this route. Some exceed 5%.
A gas engine generates vacuum by closing the throttle butter fly. The engine braking is from the HP expended in creating that vacuum.
In most Diesels there is not a throttle that restricts the intake causing the creation of a vacuum. Yes Cummins does have this feature in recent times in some of its smaller engines'. So you get a rebound from the piston as it is on the down stroke that's nearly equal to the compression stroke.
What diesel manufactures did to achieve engine braking was to either place a restriction in the exhaust. There are several ways to do that. (A valve in the exhaust closing off the exhaust and compressing the exhaust or with a turbo that has variable vanes again creating pressure in the exhaust). Or add a compression brake (bigger displacement engines often referred to as Jake Brakes) that dumps the pressure in the combustion chamber near the top of the compression stroke. The creation of a higher pressure in the exhaust system requires HP so in creating the pressure engine braking is created.
Engines in pickups that are diesel have come to include exhaust brakes as part of the standard engine. In the not to distant past add on or aftermarket suppliers sold engine braking devices for the market. This coupled with a "TOW HAUL" mode in the transmission provides good engine braking.
My 2015 Chevy with a Duramax is an example. It has a diesel engine with a turbo exhaust that has variable vanes and is used not only to create boost when under power. But also to create engine braking for the down hill situations. It preforms very well. Just completed a run from Reno to Kansas City using mostly I 80.. With the unit on cruise it maintained 68 MPH when 62 was the speed desired. There are several descents along this route. Some exceed 5%.
UTTransplant
Well-known member
As a recent diesel owner (we had a gas truck until August), the exhaust brake on our Ram is wonderful! We live in mountainous country, and we camp in mountains most of the time. The brake isn't external, like on big rigs, but it works. I will defer to cva61 for the mechanics. If the truck you are looking at doesn't have one, you should be able to add an after market version. Being able to set my cruise control and just drive, no matter what the grade, is pretty amazing.
steveblonde
Well-known member
we tow in the mountains 90% of the time and i use my factory exhaust brake all the time even when not towing it saves the brakes 10 fold
halfwright
Well-known member
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- Feb 27, 2013
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My 2002 7.3 liter doe not have any engine brake, so I just downshift, drive slow and enjoy the view. I pull over when traffic builds up behind me.
I have traveled a lot in Colorado with no braking problems.
I have traveled a lot in Colorado with no braking problems.
donuts
Well-known member
We have a 2014 GMC diesel so tow haul and my exhaust brake slow our rig down as we travel down grades in the Sierras by our home. When I had my Ford diesel, I used the tow haul feature which worked well. If you have neither, then down shifting would work. Just remember to be overly cautious when traveling down a grade and give yourself plenty of distance from the vehicle in front of you.
Sam!
Well-known member
I have an 05 cummind diesel 3500 auto trans. The tow/haul mode uses the transmission to somewhat control it from free running. that and moderate braking has never caused me a worry. on the other hand my Class C MH Cummins Manual trans. I am very glad i have an exhaust brake as this vehicle it tranny alone does nothing to help slow it.
PaulinBaja
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- Aug 6, 2014
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I have an 03 Ford F-250 with the 7.3 diesel. It has the overdrive trans. (not the tow-haul). I drive in the mountains many miles every year and have had no problems with an engine brake. Many I speak with wish they had one, and some love the ones they have, but mine is fine the way it is. My trailer, weighed last week is 14K lbs.
Tom/Barb
Well-known member
Our 2002 Dodge /cummins pulled a trailer 157,000 miles. We used the normal wheel brakes just slow it down, and never allow it over heat. You'll be OK. Worst downgrade we did was the let down into Skagway, that is a long steep grade, we stopped at the customs pull out to allow the breaks to cool.
Common sense goes a long ways. 157,000 miles on 1 front set of calipers and pads. at 110,000 miles.
Common sense goes a long ways. 157,000 miles on 1 front set of calipers and pads. at 110,000 miles.
The reason I got my diesel was because of the exhaust brake. I wouldn't tow a 5th wheel without some kind of exhaust brake. Nothing like actually having brakes at the bottom of the hill that aren't hot. I did a trip with 6% downgrade and the truck held 60 all the way which is where I had the cruise set. Not once did I have to touch the brakes. I was pulling my Montana which weighs in at about 12,000 pounds.
hoddinron
Well-known member
My RAM 2500 with Cummins 6.7 litre diesel took me from FL to Washington State across several mountain ranges, and with the use of the exhaust brake button and automatic transmission downshifting on the down hills, I hardly had to use the brakes at all!
So what I'm gathering here is newer diesel pick-ups may have factory exhaust brakes, but the older ones don't, and if it doesn't, more foot braking will be needed than a gas engine. Also some GM's have a variable vane turbo that brakes the engine also. Am I correct in my assumptions?
kdbgoat said:
Ford has it as well. The 2011 to 2014 Fords has comparatively weak engine braking, but fine for towing under about 9000 pounds. Heavier towing might need some use of the service brakes. I have a 2011 and have towed all over the US, taking the challenging routes, and you just can't wipe the smile off my face. 2015 and up Fords have a stronger exhaust brake and a button to play with. Those that say the 2011-2014 has no braking, either don't know to use tow/haul mode, or they expect the engine to drag the tires.
Sr Fox
Well-known member
We have an '03 7.3 in our F350 and pull about 17,000 lbs. I have learned to get down real slow both up and down long steep grades like the Bighorn mountains this last year with a 7%-18 mile run. I wish we had some sort of exhaust brake but from what I hear they are not recommended on this engine. I have also learned to kick the trailer brakes up a few notches on steep hills so the trailer does more of the braking.
I would be interested to hear from other 7.3 owners that have experience with exhaust brakes.
I would be interested to hear from other 7.3 owners that have experience with exhaust brakes.
schrederman
Well-known member
Another RAM owner and I really like my exhaust braking for hills and just for slowing down. I set it on auto and forget about it. works like a charm.
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
schrederman said:
Me too. My 2014 Cummins engine brake is amazing! Coming down an 8% grade for 16 miles with my trailer behind me and I never touch the foot brake. I use my exhaust brake all the time, even unloaded around town. I believe all the newer diesels have them, and you can add them to the older trucks....and you will LOVE how it works.
