E-Motorhome

[DonTom]

Due to the replacement cost if a battery were to fail outside the warranty period it would likely cost more than the car is worth to replace it,

Just continue to drive it at a reduced range. Not a big issue for most people. Total EV battery failures are very, very rare. The norm is a progressively reduced range. Not much of an issue in a country where most people drive less than 40 miles per day and your range is 150 miles instead of 330 when the EV is more than 20 years old.

And charge to full will take half the time as the KWH capacity drops to half. The way they normally age is much like having a smaller battery, half the range, charge to full twice as fast.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Skookum]

If the US would get behind battery swapping like other countries have, none of this would really be a worry. Make the battery an easily swappable component of the vehicle and problems like failure or replacement are distributed costs and spread over the life of the vehicle at a scale which is affordable.

China: NIO Celebrates 900th Battery Swap Station

NIO installed 900 EV battery swap stations in China. The deployment continues "to provide a charging experience beyond refueling."

insideevs.com

As a snarky joke, if Jiffy Lube exists in the future and ever gets into quick battery changes, they'll still over-tighten it.

 

[DonTom]

As a snarky joke, if Jiffy Lube exists in the future and ever gets into quick battery changes, they'll still over-tighten it.

Believe it or not, that can cause serious safety problems in EVs. An overtightened bolt can increase the resistance inside a bolt just as it being too loose. Such as the bolts to the motor controller. When dealing with many hundreds of amps, such as when an EV motor is running, used uphill, such stuff can become very critical and even cause a fire from the extra heat. It has happened on electric motorcycles where the motor controller is close to being right under the seat! The recommended torque on these bolts must not be ignored.

I added wires to my Zero motor controller to use with external chargers so I can charge at 8KW with external chargers. I was very careful with the torque on those bolts, but this 8KW is not the issue. That is nothing compared to the current draw at these bolts when riding up a hill.

Some people incorrectly think over-tightening these bolts will be safter. But such adds resistance to these bolts. And these bolts are made with special materials (expensive) to handle these ridiculously high currents.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I don't disagree with the premise of operating at reduced range but I think the jury is out just how these batteries will behave past the 10 year point. I know at first it's a graceful curve but I can easily see cells giving up or their actual capacities diverging to a point the BMS locks them out and capacity will diminish at some accelerating rate. I might be all wet and there'll be teslas buzzing about with stock batteries 25 years after they were built but I'm not sure I'll take that bet quite yet. They're literally changing the battery recipe month by month, predicting decades into the future seems a bit optimistic.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

the jury is out just how these batteries will behave past the 10 year point.

There are countless variables, I expect some will last a lot longer than others. How they are charged has a lot to do with how long they will last. An EV supercharged from near zero to full many times won't last nearly as long as one who only does home charging and rarely above 80% SOC (like me).

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[SeilerBird]

It amazes me that there are some people who think they can predict the cost of batteries in ten years.

 

[Grid Point Designs]

Shorter range is not ideal for everyone obviously. But it hasn’t affected our RV travels. We left 6 weeks ago on a cross Canada RV journey with our T@B400 and Tesla model Y. Essentially from the Okanagan valley of BC to Quebec City and back. We have covered a little over 9700 kilometres so far. Some days we go 50 kilometres and others as much as 600 kilometres. It involves 20 to 30 minutes of charging every 150 to 200 kilometres. That’s fine with us as we tend to take a brake every couple hours anyway. And many days we just don’t go that far. We are touring.

Anyway. Works for us. And it’s the best tow combo we have ever had…and we have had a bunch. Amazing power, low centre of gravity for excellent handling, well balanced, superior braking due to regeneration and the Tesla towing software is nice.

View attachment 155228

And we highly recommend visiting Quebec City. We have been there before in our military days but this time we had a week to explore the region a little more. Loved it. Here are a few pics.

View attachment 155229

View attachment 155230

View attachment 155231

And the award for the most picturesque fast charger goes to BC hydro and FLO for this one in Field BC. Stunning area and great hiking. Bring bear spray.

View attachment 155232

I love it! As a system installer I've seen hundreds of setups over the years. A lot of people want to go green but know the complications around it, and get creative. A Grid Point power box (www.mygridpoint.com) can charge off solar and provide a massive amount of "free" power via a 30A outlet. We have been involved with designs that capture excess solar from panels and used this to charge electric vehicle.
Of course the solar array needs to be large to give any significant charge to the EV. But a local battery bank can capture solar for days/weeks and then provide a decent charge.
It's all about thinking outside the box!

 

[DonTom]

It amazes me that there are some people who think they can predict the cost of batteries in ten years.

So far, lith batteries have gone down every year without any exceptions, since the day they were invented. I expect this to continue for quite a while. At least until the average EV is cheaper to build than the average ICE vehicle.

BTW, think of all the electronics in an ICE vehicle that are not in an EV. Seems to me an ICE is a lot more electric than are EVs.

ICE for electrical stuff that EVs do not have would include the alternator, countless sensors (I ain't even going to type all those out here, but such as O2 sensors that EVs don't have!) Spark plugs, ignition module, coils, etc.

An EV is basically a battery, inverter and motor. Most of the other stuff is also in ICE vehicles.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Isaac-1]

True and there are a lot of "disposable" ICE cars out there where they are nearly worthless once they hit the 100,000 mile point, such as just about anything with a CVT transmission, as most of these transmissions have a design service life of 100,000 miles or so and cost more to replace than the car is worth when they fail, with very few lasting over 150,000 miles.

 

[PJ Stough]

Call it whatever you want. We were energy independent but that does not go very far towards pushing a green new deal so they had to go away from being energy independent to push that agenda.

No, we were "energy dependent" because demand for gasoline and diesel fuel dropped so dramatically that at one point crude oil was selling for -$40.00 per barrel. It doesnt take much production to be "energy dependent" when there is so little demand for gasoline and diesel fuel and therefore crude oil.

 

[eaglelmc]

I don't think I would take this one for free--seems rather useless to me, mainly because:

"86-kWh battery configuration provides a range of 125 miles while powering on-board systems. "

Only 86 KWHs in an E-RV is a joke. My Tesla M3 battery is 70 KWH. They need about 350 KHWs of battery in an E-RV just to be reasonable.

IMO, they need at least four times the battery, just to start to get serious.

~1.5 miles per KWH in small motorhome. Until they can start with at least 350 KWH batteries (~500 mile range) they shouldn't expect to sell many.

But as I have said before, I don't expect to live long enough to see a decent E-RV on the road with a decent enough charging Infrastructure to make it a reasonable option.

I don't buy:

". This range will meet the needs of a majority (54%) of new RV buyers who prefer to make trips under 200 miles (1)."

Unless they are only talking about their very first trip!

-Don- Reno, NV

did you read the internet story about the couple who bought a $80,000 e truck to pull their car trailer with, they had to stop every 100 miles to charge the thing, what a waste of time and effort.

 

[DonTom]

did you read the internet story about the couple who bought a $80,000 e truck to pull their car trailer with, they had to stop every 100 miles to charge the thing, what a waste of time and effort.

Nope. But I would like to. Do you have a link?

But the problem there is obvious. The battery KWH capacity needs to be at last three times what they have.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Ian]

Shorter range is not ideal for everyone obviously. But it hasn’t affected our RV travels. We left 6 weeks ago on a cross Canada RV journey with our T@B400 and Tesla model Y. Essentially from the Okanagan valley of BC to Quebec City and back. We have covered a little over 9700 kilometres so far. Some days we go 50 kilometres and others as much as 600 kilometres. It involves 20 to 30 minutes of charging every 150 to 200 kilometres. That’s fine with us as we tend to take a brake every couple hours anyway. And many days we just don’t go that far. We are touring.

Anyway. Works for us. And it’s the best tow combo we have ever had…and we have had a bunch. Amazing power, low centre of gravity for excellent handling, well balanced, superior braking due to regeneration and the Tesla towing software is nice.

View attachment 155228

And we highly recommend visiting Quebec City. We have been there before in our military days but this time we had a week to explore the region a little more. Loved it. Here are a few pics.

View attachment 155229

View attachment 155230

View attachment 155231

And the award for the most picturesque fast charger goes to BC hydro and FLO for this one in Field BC. Stunning area and great hiking. Bring bear spray.

View attachment 155232

Bring bear spray.

and bells, don't forget the little bells... Love your teardrop and road trip story. Sounds like so much fun.

 

[Oldgator73]

and bells, don't forget the little bells... Love your teardrop and road trip story. Sounds like so much fun.

Is that a beard or did your chest hair just get out of hand?

 

[DonTom]

they had to stop every 100 miles to charge the thing

Usually not much of an issue, IMO, if there is a place to charge every 100 miles. But that is a big "if".

I often wonder why people are in such a hurry. I think it is mostly habit.

Yesterday, I had to do a charging stop in Georgetown, CA on my electric motorcycle. So what did I do as I waited? The exact same thing I did if I were home, as I am now. I posted a few forum messages and responded to a couple of emails. In a nice shady area. I like there better than here at home. Too bad I don't need another charge out there today.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Ian]

I don't think I would take this one for free--seems rather useless to me, mainly because:

Agree completely. I watched the launch of this Winnebago Concept and I felt so unimpressed with it. They tacked bits of technology onto it like they were bandaids. From the look of it, very little actual Innovative planning and design have been done. They just took an IC model and rejigged it to be called eRV. The range is woeful and to suggest it would be adequate is ridiculously dismissive of an owner's desire to travel from Point A to Point B. I would give that Concept a big F for Failed!
Now, the other Launch I watched from the same RV show was the eRV Concept model from Thor Industries. Now, that's an eRV worth at least thinking about. Loads of Innovation, Planning, and Design have gone into this Concept vehicle. Just 2 features that stood out: no rear view mirrors, there are rear-facing cameras and small display screens in each side corner of the dashboard. Another was the wide-open skylight running down the length of the roof. When they were getting the tour the guide mentioned that within a few months they hoped to have all that skylight made of cells enough for about 1+ kW of power generation. The whole layout and appliance choice have been matched to the power available and recharge options.
Oh, and an estimated 300-mile range with some sort of fuel cell. So much better than the Winnebago eRV. Just look at the really nice design features. They have worked so hard to put this together.

 

[Ian]

Is that a beard or did your chest hair just get out of hand?

LOL, hi Rod, as a Santa of 19 years that is all me.

 

[camperAL]

Hi Ian,

Good to see you here!! I still haven't made it to Australia but dream about it.

--AL

 

[DonTom]

no rear view mirrors,

I should remove the mirrors from my Tesla. The problem is they exist, so I use them by habit. But they are totally worthless compared to the screen. All the mirrors could be good for is back-up (pun was not intended!) if the screen craps out.

I like the way it's done in my 2022 Chevy Bolt. Look in the mirror, but there is a bright red icon if somebody is close the the blind spots. IMO, Tesla should do that also, regardless of the screen.

Another thing the Bolt does better is that it will switch to the front cameras right after reverse is used. I also find that to be handy. My 2022 RV also does that. Helps me see what's down low in front of me. But the large mirrors on my new RV work very well. No blind spots at all in those.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Larry N.]

no rear view mirrors, there are rear-facing cameras and small display screens in each side corner of the dashboard.

Bad idea, in spite of what Don says above. I've had side (and rear) cameras blanked by the sun on too many occasions -- glare, etc.make them useless on occasion (headlight from rear too, sometimes), where if sun or lights are a problem in a mirror (much less common) it can be mostly worked around. AND, mirrors have decidedly more detail, no matter how good the camera.

Sooner or later I'll take the time to figure out how to disable the side cameras on my coach, since they replace, rather than supplement, my rear camera when activated.