Furious at some tire data!

[Johncmr]

I'm furious at the article in Good Sam's Highways magazine.  It says 18% of those of us with a motor-home will have tire failures, and 32% with trailers will too!!  WHAT?  1/3 with towables will have a tire poop the bed and most likely "damage the rig"?

One would think these numbers would - hell, I don't know, cause the folks at arguably the biggest RV group in the country to be a little upset.  Maybe apply some statistical analysis to the survey?  Offer some suggestions to the tire guys?  Offer some suggestions to US?  1/3 of us will possibly damage our rig!  1/5 of us with motor-homes will lose a tire, gees, maybe the rig?

What does it take to get some action?  Oh wait, when the numbers get to 50% of everybody, then we'll get serious!  Whose tires are the biggest problems?  Were do they fail?  What happens when they do?  Crash, damage, nothing (flat tire)?

Thanks for letting me vent! 

Your comments?

johncmr

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Well, I guess I'm in that 18%. I've had one tire problem on a motorhome in 11 years.  It's not clear to me that I should be upset about a track record like that.

And I'm in the 32% too - we pulled 5W trailers for 4 years and had three tire failures in the space of 24 hours. Now that was a bit extreme, and I'm still not sure what caused it (inflation was to spec).

The RV Safety Foundation has an opinion on why there are so many failures - overload and under  inflation. They see it all the time when they do weight & tire checks at rallys. Overall, 11% of RVs they weigh are overweight on at least one tire. Among large diesel pushers, the percentage jumps to almost 50%

 

[taoshum]

Gee, let's start a tire rebellion!  50% is high enough to find.  Maybe there's a job for the TPMS engineers, tell us when the tires are overloaded or underinflated or both.  Surely they could cut the tire failure rate down to 5% or less.  Seems like the MH insurance companies would/could afford to invest in some R&D and save some serious claims cash plus some serious towing charge savings. 

Naw, that would make too much sense.

 

[Orick]

I discovered I had a flat tire just before my maiden voyage but have been clear for the next 32K miles and counting.  I didn't read the article but my first reaction was like Gary's to question what impact inflation, loading, and age might have had.  I am surprised to hear that large diesels were bigger overloading offenders than the smaller units.  Just seems strange to me that those of us with very high CCC would over load at higher rates. I guess with all that space, nature hates a vacuum and we fill it all up. 

Rick

 

[Rancher Will]

Tire problems are a fact of life for any road vehicles. Perhaps RVers could learn to reduce tire problems by following Truckers procedures. I, and my drivers, always check tires before every start and after every stop during a trip. We often catch a problem, i.e., low tire, leaking air, puncture, etc., before the failure.

 

[DF5.4]

I will also check the tires when the TT is just sitting at home. This way I hope I will catch a slow leak with time to fix it before a trip. I have also found cracked valve stems this way. It was nice to have the time to fix it instead of finding it 10 minutes before planning on pulling out for a trip.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Johncmr has a valid point. RV manufacturers all too often send out a rig with marginal load capacity on one of the axles and they also tend to skimp on tire size (load capacity). Numerous examples have been reported over the years and some safety recalls have resulted for the worst cases.

American Coach recently had an example: they used the same 14,600 lb front axle on both 40 and 42 foot versions of a coach and for all floor plans. The 42 footer with a full wall slide and tile floors ended up being nearly fully loaded on the front axle with just a tank of fuel & driver onboard. You could bring your wife, or you could put some water in the tanks, but not both! There was still plenty of GVWR left because the rear (tag+ drive axle) had excess capacity, but the front was easily overloaded.

By the way, this occurred around the time of the bankruptcy and AC declined to do anything about it under warranty (it was not overloaded when it left the factory - Duh!).  A few safety-minded owners coughed up $16,000 to change the front axle and tires, but most were blissfully ignorant of the potential problem or just decided to live with the risk.

 

[DandS]

While I can't argue with the validity of the results, I think you have to be careful reading too much into them. While the survey numbers were substantial (17,000 replied), this is the kind of survey somewhat more likely to be answered by those that have had a problem and ignored by those that haven't. When I had a blowout last spring, the tire service guy that changed it stated he had changed over 1000 tires on RVs in the prior year so obviously..........it happens alot.  :'(

 

[BernieD]

It's interesting that Gary and I have had just about the same tire experiences. I've had one tire go bad on my motor home (poor flat repair) in 12 years and lost 3 trailer tires one summer. I feel strongly that it is because we both are very tire safety conscious; we know our corner weights and use a TPMS to monitor our tire pressures. Those 3 trailer tires were what sent me out on my quest for a TPMS.

 

[tallyo]

I suspect 20% + do not pay enough attention to tire pressures and weights in their RV's. It's easier to notice improper load distributions on trailers than on Class A's, B's or C's. I have a couple friends who stuff everything they can into their 5th wheel and Class A with very little consideration to weights. Folks who use TPMS are in a minority, when they should be in a majority.

 

[John From Detroit]

Did the article say WHY 18 percent of motor homes will pop a casing?

If you want action.. The first place to start is with yourself.. First: MANY Rvers just inflate the tire to the "Max Pressure" on the sidewall.. This, normally (I do know of exceptions) is simply the WRONG pressure, this leads to loss of control and to excessive tread wear in the center of the tire.  And early tire failure.. Since the outer tread looks fantastic, hardly worn, the owner thinks his tires are good.

Others use the pressure on the sticker inside the MH.. This is usually proper IF THE RIG IS EMPTY save for driver and passanger and perhaps a bit of water.  However by the time you add cloths, food, dishes and all the other stuff, it's too low... This leads to excessive wear on the outer tread, (But the center looks good) and excessive flexing of the sidewalls, loss of control and greater heat build up and early tire failur.

What is the proper pressure?  I have not a clue (When it comes to your rig)

Who does?  http://www.rvsafety.com

At least the path to knowledge can start there.. You contact them, tell them what tires you have, they come out with portable scales and weigh each wheel (NOTE Whell = NOT tire if you have duals) and tell you the proper pressure as the rig is loaded when they weigh it.

Or you can do it by other means (The charts are linked to on that site)

Another cause of failure.. I have seen tires 5-10 years old that still looked like dang near new.

But that's the shelf life.... A tire that old is going to blow and blow fast.

So,  I would guess likely 80-90 percent of those tire failures that so upset you are the OWNER's own fault.  NOT the industry

What could the industry do? (And there is indeed something they should do)

They should improve the wheel well.. I mean running water, electric and GAS lines over the top of the wheel.. A very very very very bad idea.. But that's where they run them.

If you are going to put them there,,, Wrap them in a very nice solid cast iron conduit (IE: water pipe)

 

[BernieD]

Others use the pressure on the sticker inside the MH.. This is usually  proper IF THE RIG IS EMPTY save for driver and passanger and perhaps a  bit of water.  However by the time you add cloths, food, dishes and all  the other stuff, it's too low... This leads to excessive wear on the  outer tread, (But the center looks good) and excessive flexing of the  sidewalls, loss of control and greater heat build up and early tire  failur.

John

This is not correct. The sticker pressure is based on the GVWR and is what is needed to support a fully loaded vehicle within the GVWR. If the coach travel weight is less than the GVWR, you can, and should, reduce the tire pressures to that called for by the actual weight. The sticker pressure is what we usually recommend for coaches that have not been weighed.

 

[Ned]

And the sticker pressures are valid only for the original tires.  If you replace them with a different size, especially if you go up in load range, the sticker numbers are no longer valid.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Yesterday (103110)  I became part of the 18%.  I had a 2 yr. old Contintitental tire loose all of its tread amd part of the sidewall.
I was fortunate that I was not towing at the time.  The damage to my F-250 was in the area of the left rear wheel well and the trailer brakeing system was also ripped off. I was going 65 MPH on Interstate 59 just inside Georgia.  I didn't hit anything,or run over anything.  The tire peeled just like a 'Ole Timey' Recap used to do. (38,000 miles) The other 3 tires still look good, but you can't trust one that has left you on the side of the Interstate. 
I was running 65 PSI in the 275/70/18R  tires, so they wern't underinflated.
Now I'm in the market for new rubber all around.
(I'm probally not going to buy Contentitentals)

I was lucky, My truck only received a couple of thousand dollars damage.

 

[maddog348]

What % does this fall into.    Passenger/rear/outer ~~No damage to MH ~~ air just fell out.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Here is a link to the Good Sam Survey data that led to this thread.

http://blog.goodsamclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/TireSurvey4.pdf

There is some thought-provoking data there, but not sure if we can draw and major conclusions from it.

I see that 22% of motorhome owners use the pressure stated on the tire sidewall. I find that astounding.  44% of trailer owners too, but for them it is probably an ok choice.

 

[Just Lou]

[quote author=Gary RV Roamer]
I see that 22% of motorhome owners use the pressure stated on the tire sidewall. I find that astounding. 
[/quote]

Gary, I don't see why you would find that so "astounding".

I can only speak as the owner of an older gasser, but I would be astounded to learn that half the gasser owners even know the total weight of their loaded coach, much less the axle weights, and far less would know the individual corner weights.  Couple that with the fact that most gassers have a relatively small CCC and even the most informed calculations are going to result in a psi number very close to the tire max. 

Most all recommendations state that "higher is better than under inflation" and that one should maybe add a % or calculated "fudge factor".

I would bet that the majority of us with the old 16" and/or 19.5" wheels are running at, or near, the max stamped on the tires.

 

[DUTCH VanAtlanta]

As a side note, all tires have a date code stamped on them; and an old tire can certainly be more prone to tire troubles than a new one.  Here's how to translate the date codes:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

 

[Just Lou]

As a side note, all tires have a date code stamped on them; and an old tire can certainly be more prone to tire troubles than a new one.  Here's how to translate the date codes:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

Knowing the mfg date, and knowing when to replace the tires are two different things.  Most knowledgeable folks here recommend somewhere around the seven year mark.  Getting people to actually remove and replace a tire that still looks good to them is the key.

 

[taoshum]

Here is a link to the Good Sam Survey data that led to this thread.

http://blog.goodsamclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/TireSurvey4.pdf

There is some thought-provoking data there, but not sure if we can draw and major conclusions from it.

I see that 22% of motorhome owners use the pressure stated on the tire sidewall. I find that astounding.  44% of trailer owners too, but for them it is probably an ok choice.

There must be truck data for the big trucks that run the same tires as the Class A MH's.  Wonder if they are having trouble at these rates...  I don't have a clue where to look, NTSB? DOT?