Hello, I'm a new member from Europe

[Tom]

Tom, that link goes to the google search result list

Sorry about that. Here's the intended link. Read beyond the first paragraph, and you'll see you re-apply, but not appeal the original decision.

Visa Refusals under Section 214(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act

Under Section 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), applicants are presumed to be intending immigrants unless they credibly demonstrate, to

uk.usembassy.gov

 

[Tom]

We had some very bad news today when attending our Nonimmigrant Visa interview at the US London embassy... we were refused our visas.

From extensive personal and professional experience with officialdom, stay with it and (eventually) produce the necessary documentation for someone to say 'yes'.

 

[v v]

Thanks Tom

"Under Section 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), applicants are presumed to be intending immigrants unless they credibly demonstrate, to the consular officer's satisfaction, that their economic, family, and social ties outside the United States are strong enough that they will depart at the end of ..."

We understood before attending the interview that we may be required to prove our financial status plus how we are established, our shipping booking etc so we took along 4 folders of documented information to prove the various scenarios, but were never at any point asked to prove anything at all so we assumed the interview was going well. He was though as brusque as any US border official we have come across.
I think that if he had asked and we failed to provide enough evidence to support our application then so be it, but in hindsight it is obvious he made up his mind early in the interview that he didn't have to go through the whole procedure but had to carry out a minimum of appearing to interview us.

Yes, his first question was purpose of visit. As tourists was the answer and that we were in the process of shipping our motorhome to the US providing we received our visas. Also that I understood the motorhome had to be exported within 12 months of arriving, so by the 1 December 2023 as I said the proposed arrival date was 4 December 2022.

I guess you are correct that he assumed we planned to stay and live in our motorhome and over stay, but why? It wasn't from information he had from anything we said as he didn't hardly ask a question.

We absolutely love visiting the US, but we feel European and are very happy living in Europe, so not even subconscious signals could have been transmitted.
If we had made a mistake and that caused a refusal then ok, but to refuse to answer the reason for his judgement decision is not to me acceptable but probably it's his right.

I'm no longer sure if his refusal to issue a visa will now apply across the board into our ESTA visas. Or even if we still have our ESTAs, go to renew them when due and if there is a question of "have you ever been refused a visa?".

At the moment it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, that as a representative of the USA he is saying the USA doesn't want or trust us to visit, so we wont.

In the future we'll get over the not wanted part I'm sure, but we have 10 months of work, money spent and above all planning behind us aimed at this moment so not a good feeling.

 

[v v]

We wont be reapplying as we had put off selling our home to move closer to family to make this journey, and we don't want to put the move off again only to wait for another 4-6 months to get another interview with no guaranteed outcome. No it doesn't work for us any longer.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom

"Under Section 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), applicants are presumed to be intending immigrants unless they credibly demonstrate, to the consular officer's satisfaction, that their economic, family, and social ties outside the United States are strong enough that they will depart at the end of ..."

We understood before attending the interview that we may be required to prove our financial status plus how we are established, our shipping booking etc so we took along 4 folders of documented information to prove the various scenarios, but were never at any point asked to prove anything at all so we assumed the interview was going well. He was though as brusque as any US border official we have come across.
I think that if he had asked and we failed to provide enough evidence to support our application then so be it, but in hindsight it is obvious he made up his mind early in the interview that he didn't have to go through the whole procedure but had to carry out a minimum of appearing to interview us.

Yes, his first question was purpose of visit. As tourists was the answer and that we were in the process of shipping our motorhome to the US providing we received our visas. Also that I understood the motorhome had to be exported within 12 months of arriving, so by the 1 December 2023 as I said the proposed arrival date was 4 December 2022.

I guess you are correct that he assumed we planned to stay and live in our motorhome and over stay, but why? It wasn't from information he had from anything we said as he didn't hardly ask a question.

We absolutely love visiting the US, but we feel European and are very happy living in Europe, so not even subconscious signals could have been transmitted.
If we had made a mistake and that caused a refusal then ok, but to refuse to answer the reason for his judgement decision is not to me acceptable but probably it's his right.

I'm no longer sure if his refusal to issue a visa will now apply across the board into our ESTA visas. Or even if we still have our ESTAs, go to renew them when due and if there is a question of "have you ever been refused a visa?".

At the moment it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, that as a representative of the USA he is saying the USA doesn't want or trust us to visit, so we wont.

In the future we'll get over the not wanted part I'm sure, but we have 10 months of work, money spent and above all planning behind us aimed at this moment so not a good feeling.

Understood. If it's any consolation, we were xx years into our immigration process, at our 'final interview' (in San Francisco). The immigration official decided that our daughter's short-form UK birth certificate wasn't enough to prove relationship and slammed the documentation down, saying "re-file when you have the correct documentation!"

The junior immigration lawyer with us panicked and went to get his boss in another room. I produced a letter from the school to my wife, addressing her as the parent. The senior lawyer put his arm around the official, saying "Bill, could we put this in the file and weI'll deliver the long-form certificate on Monday?" The change was dramatic, and we were approved as a family.

 

[v v]

I applaud your perseverance, that must have been a tough time to live through. Usually we always persevere through to the bitter end, but with no information to work with and no appeal we have hit a brick wall.

France is also well know for it's pedantic bureaucracy, so under the 'simplified' Brexit agreement we took 8 months to register a UK registered car in France, and 10 months for the second one.

 

[TonyL]

"Also that I understood the motorhome had to be exported within 12 months of arriving, so by the 1 December 2023 as I said the proposed arrival date was 4 December 2022."

Sorry to see you were unsuccessful, did you mention the above to the official? Applying for a visa that grants up to 6 months entry and then mentioning that you understand that you must export it within 12 months could have been a red flag.
From our visa experience, I don't think the actual interview had much to do with the approval. I think the decision is made from the application paperwork.
I can't remember if you have had any previous travel history to the US, in our case, we had been a few times before we applied for the Visa.

 

[v v]

Yes we have extensive travel to the US behind us since the mid 1990's, never had a problem or even a traffic violation. Our last visit using an ESTA was February/March this year for 3 weeks.

As you write there was probably something preordained at this interview as on it's own it didn't stack up.

 

[v v]

Just to close this subject off I researched what would happen with our current ESTA visitor permits(visas) now we had been been refused a B2 Nonimmigration visa.

The ESTA detail is held in the application form that can be accessed online. It gives the start and end date of the permission plus all the details the applicant has entered. Once an ESTA is granted it can't be altered by the applicant with two exceptions.

If the US address you will use on arrival changes, and 2nd if your email address changes you may change the application. If occurred to me that maybe, just maybe by changing either or both of these would provoke an up to date review of the application even though the ESTA was running.
That didn't prove correct just by entering a new address, but after several hours of no response I re-confirmed the original email address, this brought a response titled 'ESTA Application Number' which just re-confirms the original Application Number and that there would an update within 72 hours.

Within 24 hours a second email arrived from the CBP titled 'ESTA Status Change' and that I should log in to see the latest update.

The upshot was the permission to travel on the ESTA had been removed with the statement "Travel Not Authorised"

Now we have no US issued documentation to travel to the US which we find very unfair. Only a general catch all document explanation was shoved towards us without a single word of explanation even though a reason for refusal was politely asked for. When asked a second time the Immigration Officer just turned his back and walked off, not very proffessional in my view.

The general reason is complete nonsense with no proof to back it up, so we'll never know.

Hope this helps others in the future.

 

[Stanski]

Hello,
I have just read your story. A pain in the butt for you.
We are just outside Dallas, as I write this.
We exported our motorhome as you intended using Seabridge in September.
We came over under ESTA, and are here in Dallas, after 2 months travelling, to catch a flight to Washington, to then fly to Dublin the next day.
Our hope is to return in January, to start our 2nd leg of the journey.
Fingers crossed, 2 months out of America will be adequate for immigration.

 

[v v]

Hello,
I have just read your story. A pain in the butt for you.
We are just outside Dallas, as I write this.
We exported our motorhome as you intended using Seabridge in September.
We came over under ESTA, and are here in Dallas, after 2 months travelling, to catch a flight to Washington, to then fly to Dublin the next day.
Our hope is to return in January, to start our 2nd leg of the journey.
Fingers crossed, 2 months out of America will be adequate for immigration.

I wish I could advise you re returning to the US under ESTA but I never found anything concrete about what is and isn't possible re returning.

The only aspect that did come across was if you need a longer duration than an ESTA allows you have to apply for a B2 6 month visitor visa and explain why you need the extra time.

I'm sure there are others if you search on the web who will have had direct experience of returning using an ESTA, very sorry that I can't help.

Why not contact the staff at Seabridge with your question as you wont be the first to ponder using an ESTA only, my guess is they get a lot of feedback from clients.
They always answered all my questions and in detail, but didn't offer more info than they were asked for.

Our lesson learned was say as little as possible to the border officer without volunteering anything other than what is asked for.

Looking back I think we got unlucky with the officer and on such situations your direction in life can turn.

Just last night I was completing arrangements for our new travels, around the world sort of backpacking without the backpacking. We will fly from Asia to Vancouver, Canada and some days later fly again to Mexico City as we aren't even allowed to transfer at a US airport now.
Our usual approach would have been to have taken a train through the USA and visited friends along the way, but that was the old life.

I and we really do hope your plan works, and why shouldn't it. Enjoy every minute of your time in the US, fabulous country to visit.

Any chance you will come back here and let everybody know how you got on, and maybe about your travels too.

Bon chance

 

[jackiemac]

A border guy told us ideally you should be out of the country as long as you've been in before returning.

However we know folks whose 6 month visa was running out that day. They drove to Nogales and stayed overnight and the border gave them 6 more months!

Same happened in Canada for some, despite the fact it supposedly doesn't work that way.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The possible difficulty in the "overnight stay" plan is that letting you back in and how long is totally up to the staff at the border when you attempt to re-enter. If you can deal with a NO ENTRY or a very short stay limit, it's ok, but if being stuck in Mexico (or whatever) is a calamity for you, it's maybe not a good gamble.

 

[Stanski]

We asked immigration at Washington, they said you could return next day, but be asked many questions why.
She did say that if a month or more had passed since last trip then with suitable reasons to justify the visit then we would be allowed in.
We are working on that premise.

 

[TonyL]

We were also advised by border officials that there was no hard and fast rules, despite our belief that you had to leave North America to reset your visa. The onus is on the individual to be able to satisfy the entry official that you intend to abide by the visa requirements. This we managed back in July after being in Canada for 3 months.

 

[v v]

We were also advised by border officials that there was no hard and fast rules, despite our belief that you had to leave North America to reset your visa. The onus is on the individual to be able to satisfy the entry official that you intend to abide by the visa requirements. This we managed back in July after being in Canada for 3 months.

Was that for an ESTA or a 6 month visa?

 

[jackiemac]

Our friends did it on the day their visa expired! He was a police man in the UK which might have helped. Way too risky for me.

 

[jackiemac]

Was that for an ESTA or a 6 month visa?

Tony has a 6 month visa.

 

[HeatherLane]

This news about the visa is very worrying, we have our interview booked for the 24th May. We are planning on buying an RV when we get there, touring the US and Canada for a year and either re-selling the RV or brining it home. I don't think we'll mention that at the interview.

 

[TonyL]

This news about the visa is very worrying, we have our interview booked for the 24th May. We are planning on buying an RV when we get there, touring the US and Canada for a year and either re-selling the RV or brining it home. I don't think we'll mention that at the interview.

Heather, as has been said on your thread, never lie to the Visa interviewer, they know more than they let on, but don't volunteer too much either. I still wonder if "VV" had his visa refused because he mentioned that he knew he had to remove his motorhome within 12 months. The reason you want a Visa is so that you can maximise the time in the US without having to fly home after only 3 months using the ESTA. Once you get your visa, I know you want to go to Canada whilst the weather is favorable. If you are purchasing in the US then crossing the border to Canada, provided you spend a reasonable amount of time in Canada, you should be able to re-enter the US. however, as you can see, do not rely on this, keep your travel plans flexible. When we crossed back after 3 months, we were quite prepared to be turned around by the CBP. They did ask more questions than we had been asked when entering the US at other times, but we told the truth that Canada was so expensive that we wanted to abandon our original intent to cross Ontario to go to Nova Scotia.
I'm also sure our previous history of travel in / out of the US didn't do us any harm.