House Batteries Not Being Charged

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arcticfox2005

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Apr 18, 2011
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2011 Winnebago Class C. Inverter with digital DC voltmeter wired directly to house batteries. Engine alternator charges house batteries. Shore power likewise. Shore power unplugged, generator does not charge them. With generator running, AC outlets, microwave, etc. have power so I am thinking there may be a breaker tripped somewhere.

Ideas?
 
While I am not familiar with the exact RV that you have, every RV with onboard generator from the factory that I have ever seen was connected pretty much the same way. The generator makes 120V only and that power is connected to the same distribution panel as the shore power cord. Most of them use an automatic transfer device that will select the generator output any time that the generator is in operation. But there are a few RVs that do not have the transfer device but have an outlet in the area where the shore power cord is stored that you plug that cord into in order to connect the RV to the output of the generator.

Is this an RV that you just acquired, as if it is the first thing to do is to look for that outlet. It will match the plug on your power cord if there. If you have owned the RV for a time and the power did work from the generator in the past but has quit, then check for a defective automatic transfer device.
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There is no automatic transfer switch. The power cord must be plugged into an outlet in the power cord compartment. Since the outlets and microwave have power via the generator, all us well there.
 
Start with the simple. Measure the AC voltage going into the converter first and confirm it is or is not there. I cannot make sense out of why that one outlet for the converter will not have any juice with the genny, but it is a place to start.

If no AC there, the very simple fix is to plug your converter into an outlet that is working with the genny until you figure out what is going on why that outlet won't work with the genny.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
AC voltage for the converter is obviously there: DC voltmeter on inverter reads 12.4 - plug into shore power and it jumps to 13.5. The converter is working.
 
Logically it should work, there should be no distinction between the converter running on shore power and genset power. So there *is* something different, and you'll have to back up through the circuits and figure out what the literal and figurative disconnect is. Since it's binary it should be easy to track down.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
 
The converter was replaced just a couple of weeks ago by Camping World (same make and model as original). After the installation the batteries were not charging. They called me telling me they needed the key for the outside compartments as the compartment just aft of the entry door had breakers in it and they thought one of them had tripped. When I picked it up the batteries were charging as evidenced by the DC voltmeter on the inverter.

I will call them and try to get more info but it still is not making sense because with shore power all is okay.
 
arcticfox2005 said:
AC voltage for the converter is obviously there:
Click to expand...
What makes it obvious when the genny is running? Did you measure it or not, with only the genny running? I am more interested in the AC side than the DC side here. I want to know what the AC voltage is at the converter AC input with only the genny running.

Best to use a true RMS voltmeter when running on the genny. There is the possibility that the genny is putting out a weird waveshape that is more sensitive to the converter than other stuff. But this is unlikely, but the entire thing is unlikely, so we have to look for the unusual.

A cheap AC voltmeter assumes you have a perfect sinewave. A true RMS voltmeter doesn't assume such.

If your genny is putting out a weird waveshape, it could have been fine with your old converter but not the new, if a different model.

What make and model is the genny? This could really be a genny problem. Read about "dirty generator power" here. The common symptoms of such is some 120 VAC items work perfectly, some work flakey, some do not work at all. And that seems much like the issue you're having.

If you have another genny you can use, try it out and see what happens. Especially if an inverter genny. I bet on another genny your problem will be solved.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
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I have not tried measuring AC input at the converter - the rig is in a storage facility several miles from home. We can only park it on our driveway for a limited time (HOA), so troubleshooting is a challenge.

It is a 2011 Winnebago Access, model 26Q, Ford E450 chassis, 21k miles, recently bought by us.

To answer Don's initial question, I relied strictly on DC voltage at the batteries. When we were at the storage facility recently, house batteries were at 12.3 (very low because it had been parked for over a week and I suspect a parasitic drain.) A battery disconnect switch on the negative cable is going to be installed by me soon. The batteries are new 6v purchased about 2 months ago at Sam's Club. The Inverter is a 1200 watt pure sine wave Giandel, purchased from Amazon, $199.96. The DC voltmeter I am relying on is built into the inverter.

Anyway, when I was backing it out of the covered storage stall, my wife switched on the inverter and said the DC voltage was 13.5 (alternator apparently okay). Engine turned off and generator started, voltage back to 12.3. When we get it home next time I will pursue input AC voltages. The generator is the standard factory unit available in 2011 - can't give you exact model as all paperwork is in the rig, miles away.

The converter itself is the exact same model, purchased through Camping World, but drop-shipped directly to me by the manufacturer. Installed by CW.
 
If it is a manual transfer of power from shore to generator, there shouldn't be any power inconsistencies and a breaker becomes unlikely. Be sure you have diagnosed properly. It is helpful to use a handheld voltmeter and not rely on the internal one. Alternator charging is a different circuit for battery charging and will not affect your converter charger.

If the converter charger charged the batteries fine before CW replaced the inverter, something must have changed at CW. That still makes little sense but whenever an inverter is installed, proper wiring is a must as it is possible to wire the inverter so that it feeds the converter charger, and the rest is history.
 
Henry, I don't know if you are confused or just being a little sloppy in your typing. CW replaced the converter, not the inverter. I installed the inverter and the output is not wired to anything. It is in the kitchen area and we plug into it directly for coffee maker, phone charging, tv etc.
 
If the converter will charge the batteries on shore power and you have no transfer switch ie you plug your shore power plug into the genny outlet.

Then: the wiring must be correct.

I think you have a bad converter that won't run on your genny.

The next time you're there take an old 6 foot extension cord and cut one end off and wire it directly to the converter. Then start the genny and plug into it and see if the converter will charge the battery independant of any other RV wiring. If it won't take it back to CW.
 
 
JayArr said:
I think you have a bad converter that won't run on your genny.
Click to expand...
The opposite is more likely. Has a generator that will not work with the new converter.

Here is my reasoning:

If the genny puts out a clean sinewave at the correct voltage, frequency, etc, then there is NO difference between it and shore power. And gennys should be the same or close enough that it makes no difference to any equipment on its load. For an example, a genny one hz off the expected 60hz normally won't hurt a thing and will work perfectly with almost anything that requires 60 hz. Also, only a few volts off 120 VAC normally won't hurt anything. But a very unclean output, or way off frequency, or a distorted waveshape then you find some items work perfectly some will work flakey, some will not work at all. This can explain the difference between somethings working on shore power but not from the genny, when other items are work fine from the same genny.

His converter works with shore power. That proves to me the converter is fine other than being sensitive to a good waveshape that the genny probably does not have. The old converter probably worked better with a distorted waveshape. But a decent clean on frequency 120 VAC sinewave waveshape is what many things that run from AC expect and require.

IMO, all the evidence here shows a problem at the genny and a new converter that has no problem at all, other than expecting a normal AC input.

Unclean genny output is not at all uncommon.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
JayArr said:
If the converter will charge the batteries on shore power and you have no transfer switch ie you plug your shore power plug into the genny outlet.

Then: the wiring must be correct.

I think you have a bad converter that won't run on your genny.

The next time you're there take an old 6 foot extension cord and cut one end off and wire it directly to the converter. Then start the genny and plug into it and see if the converter will charge the battery independant of any other RV wiring. If it won't take it back to CW.
Click to expand...
Jay basically hit the nail on the head. The only thing that has changed is where the power is coming from. -or- as Don suggested, the generator power is dirty. The factory installed generator would be an ONAN 4000. In any case, the converter is pickier than the rest of the RV.

What converter (brand and model) was installed? You have a common steel housing Parallax power panel, with the converter in the bottom of it. The BEST replacement is a Progressive Dynamics 4655 (assuming 55 amp, which I believe is correct) and this is a one hour or less slide out, slide in conversion, 5 wires total to connect, and another hour if you replace the DC fuse panel with the new one that comes with the converter (highly suggested). Attachment pic at the bottom is my installation in my 2007 Winnebago View.

PD4600-in-case.png


PD4600-out-of-case-1024x876.png
 

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CharlesinGA said:
The only thing that has changed is where the power is coming from.
Click to expand...
If the converter is getting a good 120 VAC 60 hz sinewave, it makes no difference where it comes from.

And that is why I say it has to be a genny problem.

If it's an Onan, way off frequency, way off voltage the control board will shut it down. So we can probably rule that out.

But it will most likely not react to a somewhat distorted waveshave and it will just continue to run just fine, keeping the control board happy.

It's really the only possibility here, based on the info in this thread that the converter works fine with shore power, and so does everything else. This proves the converter is fine. Leaves no other possibilities.

But on the genny, everything works perfectly except the new converter. This proves the genny has a problem. It's just that the new converter requires a decent AC waveshape input, as it should have.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
arcticfox2005 said:
The converter was replaced just a couple of weeks ago by Camping World (same make and model as original). After the installation the batteries were not charging. They called me telling me they needed the key for the outside compartments as the compartment just aft of the entry door had breakers in it and they thought one of them had tripped. When I picked it up the batteries were charging as evidenced by the DC voltmeter on the inverter.

I will call them and try to get more info but it still is not making sense because with shore power all is okay.
Click to expand...
While I am OK with the dirty generator theory one always needs to look at "what changed" and the converter was replaced. The installer even had a problem when they installed it. They got it to run on shore power but not generator.

I would definitely call them and try to understand the nature of the problem. If the converter is a like for like replacement by part number it either has had some upgrade that makes it more sensitive or there is something wrong with it.

That doesn't preclude there being a dirty generator signal but as Grandma said, "Danny bot. Go back to the last thing you screwed up..."
 
CharlesinGA said:
Jay basically hit the nail on the head. The only thing that has changed is where the power is coming from. -or- as Don suggested, the generator power is dirty. The factory installed generator would be an ONAN 4000. In any case, the converter is pickier than the rest of the RV.

What converter (brand and model) was installed? You have a common steel housing Parallax power panel, with the converter in the bottom of it. The BEST replacement is a Progressive Dynamics 4655 (assuming 55 amp, which I believe is correct) and this is a one hour or less slide out, slide in conversion, 5 wires total to connect, and another hour if you replace the DC fuse panel with the new one that comes with the converter (highly suggested). Attachment pic at the bottom is my installation in my 2007 Winnebago View.

PD4600-in-case.png


PD4600-out-of-case-1024x876.png
Click to expand...
 
CharlesinGA is correct re the converter replacement other than the model number. It is a Progressive Dynamics 4645 (45 amp, not 55) which I ordered from Camping World. It was shipped directly to me by PD and I took it and the rig to CW for the installation.
 
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