Older Diesel or Newer Entry Level Gas

[gruzzy47]

I'm currently shopping for my first used RV.  I plan to purchase in the next month or so, and then go full time.  I have looked at quite a few at this point, and I'm torn.

My price range is 30-40k ideally.  At that range I have my eye on a few newer (2005-2009) entry level gas models with medium mileage.  I have also looked at couple of older (1999-2003) Diesels. 

I like that the newer ones I'm looking at...well...look newer, and part of me want's to stay right at the 35' range.  Some of my concerns are:
  -Mileage higher than I would like
  -Most only have 30 amp service
  -Lower quality due to being "entry level"
  -Still have a good amount of depreciation to do

I like that the diesels use more sturdy construction, and have more rugged engines.  They also have 50 amp service.  Some of my concerns:
  -Older and Bigger - I don't want to limit my campsite options
  -Repairs cost more if it does break down
  -They don't have the same glimmer as the newer ones
  -Noisey engines annoying other people nearby
 

These are not ALL of my pros and cons, but some of the major ones.  I'm hoping to get your opinions on newer entry level models versus older diesels in similar price ranges.  I know there's not "right" answer, just want to hear your opinions.

Thanks,
Zach

 

[Becks]

As you know, it really comes down to what do you want. There are a lot of diesels in the 32-36 foot length. My recommendation is often if budget allows go diesel.

 

[SeilerBird]

IMHO gas vs diesel is a matter of use. The right tool for the right job. If you plan on towing and being out west then a diesel would be your best option. If you are not towing and living in the flat lands then a gasser is the best tool.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

So why not a slightly older but high-end gas coach?  Winnie Adventurer, Fleetwood Pace Arrow & Southwind, Dolphin LX, Monaco Monarch or La Palma gas, to name a few. Should be some in your price range around years 2000-2005

Diesel is nice, but you don't NEED a diesel.

 

[gruzzy47]

So why not a slightly older but high-end gas coach?  Winnie Adventurer, Fleetwood Pace Arrow & Southwind, Dolphin LX, Monaco Monarch or La Palma gas, to name a few. Should be some in your price range around years 2000-2005

Diesel is nice, but you don't NEED a diesel.

I'm not opposed to that at all.  I just left that option out because there aren't many around me at this time that fit into that category.  Those that do, have a few more miles on them than I would feel comfortable with.  Once they get up to 75,000 miles or so, it's less appealing to me.  I know that they are capable of getting plenty more miles after that point, but what if I put 25k miles on it, and then want to sell it?  Now I've got to try to sell a gas coach with 100k miles on it... :/

Zach

 

[mhbell]

How many Miles a Year do you plan to put on what you buy. Most only drive 3000 to 5000 a year. I just traded a 1997 Gasser that only had 48000 Miles and I put 4000 of those on in the last year. I just bought a 2006 that had 56000 miles on it and a ford V-10 engine. I live in Utah and travel a lot in the mountains of Utah, Arizona and Nevada. No problem with a Gasser. I tow a jeep liberty.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Sounds to me like your wishes are incompatible with your budget. One of the other is going to have to compromise a bit.

There are shorter diesels around. Winnie made a 32 foot Journey for several years, though they are scarce on the used RV lots.  Country Coach and some others had 36 foot diesels in the late 90's and they were lovely coaches. But you are right - any significant repair quickly runs into the thousands.

 

[ArdraF]

We had a 1999 34-foot Monaco Windsor diesel pusher and they also made a 32-footer so there definitely are older DPs in that length range.  Monaco made a good motorhome back then.

ArdraF

 

[TonyDtorch]

So why not a slightly older but high-end gas coach?  Winnie Adventurer, Fleetwood Pace Arrow & Southwind, Dolphin LX, Monaco Monarch or La Palma gas, to name a few. Should be some in your price range around years 2000-2005

Diesel is nice, but you don't NEED a diesel.

as I'm reading this, Gary,..... I wish there was a model level comparison list of all the big makers....like Winnie to Fleetwood and Monaco to Country Coach and Tiffin and Newmar....etc.

 

[LTG]

We owned a 27 ft Itasca Sunova gas model Class A. We later purchased a 2004 Foretravel 36' diesel class a motorhome. The cost of annual maintenance for the Foretravel is four or five times the annual maintenance cost of the gas Itasca. Before you buy a Class A diesel pusher motorhome research the cost of annual maintenance. For instance, there is the cost of maintaining the air system and air brakes, the cost of the diesel engine fuel filters, the extra cost of oil changes due to the increase capacity of the diesel engine, etc. And then there is the increased expense of maintain the diesel generator compared to the gasoline generator. In most cases, tires are larger and more expensive. If a tag axel, more tires. For all of this you get a quieter and more comfortable ride. IMO, buy a gas model.

 

[gruzzy47]

How many Miles a Year do you plan to put on what you buy. Most only drive 3000 to 5000 a year. I just traded a 1997 Gasser that only had 48000 Miles and I put 4000 of those on in the last year. I just bought a 2006 that had 56000 miles on it and a ford V-10 engine. I live in Utah and travel a lot in the mountains of Utah, Arizona and Nevada. No problem with a Gasser. I tow a jeep liberty.

Not sure...potentially a lot.  I'm planning to take a band on the road with it.  The last touring band I was in put over 15,000 miles on our van playing 100 shows in one year, but we took some gigantic cross country trips that I may or may not want to do again.

Sounds to me like your wishes are incompatible with your budget. One of the other is going to have to compromise a bit.

There are shorter diesels around. Winnie made a 32 foot Journey for several years, though they are scarce on the used RV lots.  Country Coach and some others had 36 foot diesels in the late 90's and they were lovely coaches. But you are right - any significant repair quickly runs into the thousands.

Well I think my wishes are on the cusp of being out of my budget, but with enough searching it can be done.  For example the two diesels I'm looking at are asking 40k, and I'm sure I can talk them down a little bit off of that.  There's also a 08 fleetwood Fiesta LX, which falls on the other end of my spectrum, and they're also asking 40k.  I live in a pretty densely populated area, and there are a bunch of dealers within 30 minutes.  I've been making the rounds for a couple of months. Inventories have been turning over quickly, and have I seen some good deals.  It's just a matter of pouncing on the one thats just right....or close enough. The hard part is deciding which one is "just right"...that's where you guys come in. 

Zach

 

[RodgerS]

When the issue of budget comes up, that becomes its own issue. I'm overly conservative, but I have a 100k to 150K range, and on top of that range is another $20,000 planned for replacements, repairs, upgrades, and interior changes.

The best advice I have ever heard is to determine what you want, then drop down in years until it fits your budget. 

Until I get my service tech skills where I want them, I simply don't have time to use an rv other than an occasional rental, so depreciation time is on my side as what I want drops in value as I increase my service tech skills. And no I don't feel I'm missing out on anything...I'm have fun service teching.

Gas can now go 200k miles per the mechanics I work with, so mileage is not an issue. Many gas owners seem reasonably happy with the new gassers...but that is just what I have heard on the street.

I want nothing to do with the entry level stuff I fix every day. So, if I was to go gas I would go with a Newmar Canyon Star.

On the other hand, I have certain options I want that force me into a diesel.

If the used owner has done a reasonable job of keeping up the chassis, which you can reasonable verify even if the paper work is not there, then I believe you have a fair start. The house is probably the most highly depreciated part of the deal and one should expect, I think, to have to suffer a bit to get the unit road ready, regardless...like putting on new tires.

Warning: these are my personal opinions and there are plenty of people on this forum who would and probably will argue differently.

Note: I also believe your diy skills are the key to reduce lots of downtime at a dealership and out of pocket out of control labor costs.

 

[gruzzy47]

annual maintenance for the Foretravel is four or five times the annual maintenance cost of the gas Itasca.

Yikes.  I knew it would be more, but didn't think it would be quite that much.  Then again a 99 diesel will probably depreciate less than an 08 gas.  I don't know if that will offset the extra maintenance costs, but it might make it a little easier to swallow...

Zach

 

[tedandcandy]

Buy this one short and good quality, price

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/rvs/5096708382.html

 

[ArdraF]

Ah, that's an interesting listing which brings up another consideration.  Zack's stated use is for a band going around the country to different venues.  The tanks should be larger, otherwise he'll be getting fresh water and dumping every day!  In that respect a larger diesel pusher might work better because it will have larger tanks and more storage.  We had three gas Class Cs before moving up to the 34' Windsor I mentioned previously and I'll never forget WHY we upgraded.  As we were going west from Denver on I-70 we were crawling along at about 25 mph as we neared the summit.  Jerry at some point said "We need a diesel so we can have more power."  We soon owned that Monaco Windsor 34-footer which had a Cummins 330 hp engine.  It and our friend's 32-footer could really move out!  Now that same engine was used for longer motorhomes and I suspect that the oooph factor decreased as the length and weight increased.  So Zack is going to need enough horsepower to get over tall mountains at reasonable speeds.  He'll also need something in good enough condition that he doesn't face constant breakdowns because they're going to have arrival dates that can't be missed.  Finally, it has to be large enough to accommodate the band members.  How many people?  There are a lot of factors to consider that might be more important than the annual maintenance costs.  I doubt ours has been 3-4 times more than the gas models we had previously, but Jerry also does a lot of the maintenance himself.  Yes, tires are expensive but they'll also be a legitimate business expense for the band, as will be the other costs.  Good luck in figuring it out, Zack.

ArdraF

 

[gruzzy47]

Buy this one short and good quality, price

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/rvs/5096708382.html

Good Price....but I'm in Minnesota.  :/

Ah, that's an interesting listing which brings up another consideration.  Zack's stated use is for a band going around the country to different venues.  The tanks should be larger, otherwise he'll be getting fresh water and dumping every day!  In that respect a larger diesel pusher might work better because it will have larger tanks and more storage.  We had three gas Class Cs before moving up to the 34' Windsor I mentioned previously and I'll never forget WHY we upgraded.  As we were going west from Denver on I-70 we were crawling along at about 25 mph as we neared the summit.  Jerry at some point said "We need a diesel so we can have more power."  We soon owned that Monaco Windsor 34-footer which had a Cummins 330 hp engine.  It and our friend's 32-footer could really move out!  Now that same engine was used for longer motorhomes and I suspect that the oooph factor decreased as the length and weight increased.  So Zack is going to need enough horsepower to get over tall mountains at reasonable speeds.  He'll also need something in good enough condition that he doesn't face constant breakdowns because they're going to have arrival dates that can't be missed.  Finally, it has to be large enough to accommodate the band members.  How many people?  There are a lot of factors to consider that might be more important than the annual maintenance costs.  I doubt ours has been 3-4 times more than the gas models we had previously, but Jerry also does a lot of the maintenance himself.  Yes, tires are expensive but they'll also be a legitimate business expense for the band, as will be the other costs.  Good luck in figuring it out, Zack.

ArdraF

Maintenance cost will be tax deductible, yes, since I will be using it for a business.  It will also be my home which means other write offs.  Any one here an accountant? Haha.  I do my own taxes, but this might get tricky.  That brings up another question.  Most states don't require a CDL for RVs, but I suppose hauling a band around makes it "commercial use".  Might have to get a CDL...

I guess I have TWO main priorities.  First and foremost it is the safety of my dog during the hot summers.  I'll be in Tennessee.  It has to have two ACs, and I would feel a million times better if it had 50 amp service.  I'm not sure that I would trust my dog's life on two ACs on 30 amp service if I'm away from the RV during the day.  I know it CAN be done....but it CAN also trip the breakers.

My other main priority is reliability.  Like ArdraF said, arrival dates can't be missed.  Just how reliable is a 15-20 year old diesel?

There are other things I would like as well, but the two above are pretty much deal breakers. 

Zach

 

[RodgerS]

You could hire one of the forum old hands to do your research and make the purchase for you. I would vote you hire Ned, Gary, or Tom, among others.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Well I think my wishes are on the cusp of being out of my budget, but with enough searching it can be done.

I was not suggesting there are no coaches available in your price range. Just the opposite, in fact (see my reply #3 and #6).  However, you stated you didn't want an older rig or a low end model. It's the combination of newer and high end that drives the price up.

Traveling with a group (will the entire band be living onboard?) and a lot of miles yearly certainly makes both higher quality construction (inside & out) and the diesel engine a higher priority. It also makes a larger rig more attractive.

 

[gruzzy47]

I just took a good look at the 08 Fiesta LX 34N.  The floor plan is exactly what I'm looking for.  It's in really nice condition.  33,000 miles.  It won't have all of the benefits of a DP, but it's also not 15 years old, which is roughly how old a DP would be in my price range.  I won't have problems getting into campgrounds that limit based one age (under 10 years) or size.  There's a lot to like if I can negotiate the right price.

Thoughts on this particular model for full timing? I know it's an "entry level", but...

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Despite all the talk, there is nothing unique in an RV for fulltiming. It just has to meet your needs for usable space, including storage. The rest is about wear & tear. An entry level rig is generally made with light duty materials (flooring, cabinetry, upholstery) and thus tends to wear out more quickly.