Poor English, spelling and grammar.

[gwcowgill]

Tom,

I learned to communicate with the Thai Air Traffic Controllers who in 1965 had little English but some. During the process of training Thai and Lao ATC's I learned Thai, Lao and interspertion of the 3 languages. It was fun, interesting and educational for all. I speak Thai well enough to barter in the markets and get along just fine. I love the people of Thailand and enjoy traveling throughout Thailand. I have learned enough of the language of every country I was fortunate enough to have lived to be able to acquire basic needs. Some of the better educated Thais speak a form of the Queens English and some American English and then throw in some Aussie English. Got to listen close sometimes to get the meaning.

The schools in Thailand are constantly looking for native English speakers to teach. Many countries speak English thus the variations in grammar and pronunciation. It is interesting to say the least. I admire any person who speaks multiple languages. You learn to be tolerant especially to those who did not have the benefit of higherf education.

 

[Tom]

Interesting gwcowgill.

I admire any person who speaks multiple languages.

Me too. In the 70's I was sitting in a lounge with a bunch of folks from various European countries. They were talking in their respective native country groups (Brits speaking English among themselves, Italians speaking Italian among themselves, etc). A German guy was listening to, and participating real time in all the discussions going on in 6 different languages concurrently. When I asked how he did that, he replied "oh, I can only speak 8 languages fluently, but my sister speaks 16 languages fluently".

 

[Wendy]

I admire any person who speaks multiple languages.

I love when someone switches from one language to another without a flinch (very common in our area with English-Navajo and English-Spanish) - how cool is to be able to do that?

Personally, I think they should start teaching a second language from the cradle and it should be required in all schools. But that's just me.

FWIW, no kids but our dog is quad-lingual.

Wendy

 

[ArdraF]

I do not believe anyone is attempting to be exclusive or elitist, most are merely encouraging clear, concise messages.

Absolutely correct, Roy.  I have no problem with someone who hasn't had much education but tries to convey his/her thoughts or someone who speaks another language.  I also greatly admire those people who are fluent is several languages and who also have the ability to change effortlessly from one language to the other.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all could do that!  Nevertheless, we just want to be able to comprehend what people are writing and prefer not to wade through the text-message style of shorthand that all too often is neither very clear nor precise.  :

Wendy, we always knew Gordon was special!  ;D

ArdraF

 

[gwcowgill]

but my sister speaks 16 languages fluently".


That is amazing.... The Asian languages are tonal languages that take a lot of practice and hearing to learn I have problems with the tonal languages when similar words have different meangs.  "MAA"  can mean Horse, Doctor or Mother depending on the tone used. Sometimes my DW will look at me when I am speaking Thai knowing I didn't get the right tone.

 

[Tom]

[quote author=gwcowgill]The Asian languages are tonal languages that take a lot of practice and hearing to learn...[/quote]

In my early days of online forums I used to communicate with a 747 captain for JAL. He was an American, married to a Japanese lady, and living in WA. His primary job, besides being in charge of the plane, was to be the English speaker in the cockpit. He explained quite a bit about what I think you're talking about, where the same word (spoken in Japanese) can have significantly different meaning based on how they're spoken. There were other dimensions to it, but it all sounded way beyond my abilities.

Many years later I worked for a company that was originally owned by a large Japanese corporation. They had numerous customers in Japan, which was why I got to know my way around pretty well. I tried learning Japanese, but gave up in frustration, and always took an interpreter with me on my trips (typically, a Japanese national who had lived and worked in the US for a number of years).

An acquaintance and his wife spent 5 years learning Japanese on weekends in a formal classroom setting, but they felt they still had a very long way to go.

 

[SoEzzy]

I was part of a pilot group that got French as a foreign language 7 - 11, and that extra 4 years meant I understood a lot more of the language than those who started at 11 through 15.

I then traveled and worked throughout Europe, learning shopping German and Italian, while traveling I found a couple of travelogues that detailed you really only need 25 - 30 words in any language as a start.

The numbers 1 - 10
please, thank you, excuse me.
where is, what is, how much, when is
left, right, straight.
toilet, bathroom, hotel, bathroom, museum, beach, bar, beer, food, eat
 
Learn those in the language and you will find some one willing to help or from those you will learn enough to be able to get by.

At one stage mid 80's I could ask if you spoke English as I didn't speak your language in 23 different languages, that included being able to say I don't speak German in Danish!

My Welsh is farm dog welsh, I learned some of the commands for border collies that herd sheep, bread and butter, good day, good night, I like the Welsh and Breton tongue, Spanish I learned from the French and Italian, a little Arabic and Hebrew, but at the end of the day I am only really fluent in 2, English and American! and I still make mistakes in American!

 

[Rancher Will]

All of the above reminds me of the the response by Prime Minister Winston Churchill to a letter from a school teacher. The letter upbraided Churchill for his poor grammar, especially his ending sentences with a preposition.
His responding letter had only one sentence. "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put"!

 

[gwcowgill]

I find foreign languages interesting especially the migration of other languages into the different languages. As you know, those in Boston speak a different language than those in Georgia. , The variations we have in pronunciation can be magnified throughout the world. The language spoke in Northeast Thailand (Isaan) and the language spoke in southern Thailand is often considered 2 different languages with the Isaan language using a lot of Laotian words and expressions. It is no wonder we don't understand each other. Japan is a whole different ballgame. I had the opportunity to live in Japan and learned enough of the language to get by. The formal Japanese language has over 2500 characters in the alphabet. Try learning that!!!!!

 

[Tom]

My Welsh is farm dog welsh, I learned some of the commands for border collies that herd sheep, bread and butter, good day, good night

Didn't know that collies said things like bara menyn, bore da and nos da  ;D

Were you able to decipher the commands issued by whistling?

I like the Welsh and Breton tongue{s}

Ah, that's a topic on its own.

 

[Flyboy]

I realize that this is the friendliest place but I have to vent.

If you ax me, it don't sound that away.

With today's public school system, I would not expect much improvement.

 

[Tom]

LOL I just saw and corrected one of my own typos in the few words I wrote in Welsh in this topic  :-[

 

[John From Detroit]

My maternal Grandparents were German.  Though based on research my daughter has done it appears Grandpa was born here in the states. Grandma came to us via Odessa Russia (I have a copy of her entry papers as filed at Ellis Island when she arrived)

When they moved to the US, Grandpa said "If we are to live as Americans, we will learn to speak like Americans" so on that day, American English became the language of the house.. Save for prayer, Prayer was still in German for as Jimmy Cagney was to say "It would not be the same".

Imagine, if you will, World War II... A large family, so a long dinner table,, On one side the son who is in the Army, home on leave, with his buddies,,, On the other side, Navy.

At the head of the table sits the patriarch of the family saying Grace before Meals (Catholic style) in flawless GERMAN.

Worked out well though.. A couple of times my uncles got shot down behind enemy lines.. The plane's captain gave the abandon ship order ending it with "Re-group on Baughman" and once on the ground the plan was that the crew would speak only American English, only Baughman would speak German.. They would enounter a patrol. The patro would be happy thinking they had caught... exactly who they had caught.. My uncle would explain that they were a highly trained inflatration group, the flyers had been caught and taken prisoner, and they were to wear their uniforms and inflitrate the enemy.. Of course he spoke German like a German.. Some doubt would be experessed and the crew is not quite sure just what was said next since it was not in the training manual.. but the Patrol would get red in the face and let them pass..... Every time.

Yes, there is a difference in the way a native speaks, and the way someone who learned as a 2nd language speaks.

 

[Joezeppy]

I love when someone switches from one language to another without a flinch...

This used to happen growing up around my Italian-born grandparents but usually when we grandkids were in trouble - they would start to yell at us but the English words would escape them and they slowly transitioned into Italian. I'm not even sure they realized it had happened. When it was all said and done, we were in more trouble since we did not understand that they had just told us to "go to your room"!

 

[brens]

Let me just say this. When I first started looking into buying a RV I found this site I asked a lot of questions. I had so much positive feedback.  I misspelled some guys City, he did correct me and I felt like a idiot. My first thought was to run. (I do that well!) and not come back. Other members commented on it and I did feel better but was very hurt by it. I did decide to stay because there is a lot of good people here and I get a lot of  great information on this site.  I'm very sensitive to my spelling and grammar. I leave a lot out because I can't find the proper spelling or I just don't know how to express it on paper . I left a very good paying job because I can't get up in front of anyone and read. We had meetings every Monday and I was always sick to my stomach thinking I would be called on to read. Let me tell you I can sell you ice in Alaska! That is my strong area.  Yes I did graduate from high school I don't know how. My mom worked 3 jobs as a waitress raising 4 girls never taking one hand out. But my problem was she could not help me with my home work so I became the class clown to hide how I felt inside . I made sure to marry someone that was SMART! and send my kids to private school so they could not slide threw school. If I need something of importance typed up I have my husband  take care of it. So should you all start correcting people like me? I guess you could but it only hurts me. I think that most people know that there spelling and grammar sucks but I'm here for knowledge on my RV and Photography!!! I hope you all can understand this I did not have my husband proof read it.  Brenda

 

[gwcowgill]

Brenda,

There are a lot of people who are very smart but don't spell well or have great grammar. I had a student in High School that I had difficulty reading his papers because of bad spelling. He spelled everything as it sounded to him. Today he is a computer programmer for a large software company. Even in high school he would program games and do the graphics. That is something that I as a college graduate cannot do. Besides like I say, "I am retired and therefore I do not have to impress anyone". Your post read very well so don't worry about it and keep doing what you are doing,

 

[sew2bhappy]

Hooray to Brenda!  Thank you for saying what I (and probably a few others) was thinking and feeling.  I do my best with spelling and grammar, but sometimes it just doesn't come out right!  And spell checkers only do that....check spelling.  Some applications have grammar check, but a lot of times the correction offered makes absolutely no sense.
So...if I offend you with a spelling or grammar error, oh well.  I came here to learn about RV's from some of the bestest  ;D RVers - not go back to school.

 

[Marc L]

I don't have a problem with some typos or grammatical errors, I do them too.  I have more problems with lack of punctuation.  It's nice to break things up in paragraphs, even if only for the reader to rest the eyes.  If I check the forum in the morning before my 1st coffee and come across a post that is a long run on sentence, no paragraphs, several lines long, I just skip it.  My eyes just can't follow.

Here is an example of one of my long posts that I stripped all punctuation and put it all in one paragraph:

is the trailer hooked up to the bumper hitch or a real class iii/iv receiver?  by that i mean do you hook up the trailer on a ball located on the bumper or is there a 2"x2" square hole under the bumper with a hitch attachment that the trailer hooks up to  you need the latter other wise you will end up with an ford without a rear bumper and a trailer with a front ford bumper also the towing capacity assumes a vehicle with just a 154 lbs driver and a full tank of gas  anything you add to the truck passengers gear trailer hitch etc reduces the towing capacity by that much weight  i checked in the 2001 trailer life towing guide and the 2001 expedition can tow between up to 5100 to 8100 lbs depending on the configuration (engine gear ratio 2wd vs 4wd) by the numbers provided there is a possibility that it will be overweight by the time you are ready to hit the road  the dry weight has no real life meaning other than it means that the trailer weighs empty and often without options  since people never camp with an empty trailer the dry weight has no meaning  the dry weight of my trailer did not include options and i have 500lbs of options that's usually true for most manufacturers that do no weight each individual trailer when they leave the factory assuming the best case scenario 8100 lbs towing capacity and 6600 lbs dry weight is accurate that leaves you 1500 lbs for passengers and gear in the truck and trailer  it can certainly be done but it's also easy to pack heavy and overload

The original is better, but I'm sure I have mistakes in it.

 

[Wendy]

There's a difference between being well-written with a few grammatical errors and writing things that are barely readable. Brenns, your posts are very readable, no need to worry. But sometimes I hit things (few here but tons on Facebook) that are barely readable and border on inconprehensible. I think the important thing is whether or not you're trying to write well or just being lazy and scribbling out something. And, yes, you'll find plenty of typos and mis-speaks in my posts and no one is more appalled by them than I am.

Bottom line, say what you want to say, say it the way you want to say it. And don't get upset when people judge you, because they will judge you, not only on what you say but also on how you say it.

Now let's all go RVing and have fun !

Wendy

 

[Tom]

Ditto what Wendy said. Brenda, your message made perfect sense to me, and I sure hope you don't allow anyone's critique of your writing to chase you away.