POP! goes the computer............. sigh.......

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CharlesinGA

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Joined
Oct 6, 2017
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Location
50 miles south of Atlanta, GA
Ok, I have a small network set up in the house, and shop. I have a WIFI6 router unit with ethernet ports, and a second switch unit connected to it. On the network is the old desktop (a Win 7 machine) a Western Digital RAID back up drive, the cable modem supplies the router, and a Cat 5e cable run in a 1/2 PVC electric conduit underground to the shop, where it supplies a WIFI router that I have renamed, given a new address to, disabled the DHCP, and a name different from the house unit. From the connections on the back of the "router" (which is now nothing more than a WIFI access point, but much cheaper) a wall mounted smart TV is supplied by the LAN.

There are enough lightning strikes that I lose about one WIFI access point a year in the shop. (shop is a 60x60 all steel building with an entirely separate electrical feed, different transformer, different meter, from the house.) It is the first thing on the main feed to the Subdivision, the house is the second.

The first one lost was an old router which the WAN port had died on, but otherwise performed perfectly. i set it up and used it about a year, till it got zapped (and not just the power supply brick either, the whole thing.) Second one was a new Linksys unit I bought and set up, zapped, third was this March but it was OK, just the power supply brick so I dug in the junk box and pulled out another Linksys power supply brick identical and it worked again.... until last Tuesday........... Power supply brick OK, Linksys worked OK in so far as it responded to the phone and laptop but was not passing any info from the main router/internet connection. AND..... The Toshiba 34 inch TV will not turn on, nothing, yet other stuff plugged into the same plug (power for the soundbars and their optical splitter all work fine.

Previously I had bough a Netgear Nighthawk WIFI5 router off the clearance table at Staples as a spare, So last night, I reconfigured it and got it set up and all of that worked. Did I mention the access point is mounted on a small shelf about 15 ft off the floor and I have to get my scissor lift to access it? I did pay $10 extra to get the 2 year, unlimited warranty which includes surges. I'm guessing it will pay off.

However, the bigger issue is my desktop. The weather had passed, the lightning was several miles to the east, rain was over, and suddenly, from the area of the desk was a pop that could have easily been mistaken for a gun shot. The desktop is inop. When I apply power the green light on the power supply goes on and off and varies in intensity. I went ahead and ordered another power supply, I shall see if that gets it running again.

Everything in the house is on battery UPS units with surge suppression, older Tripp Lite manufactured, IBM branded units. The wall outlet is a Leviton 4 way outlet with surge suppression in it, and the breaker panel has a Square D surge suppressor that fits in the place of a breaker. (none of this is great, but it is layered one before the other)

On the good side, the Western Digital network back up RAID drive (which is no longer supported by WD) is performing flawlessly, and has a complete image of the desktop drive the same day as the desktop went POP! I looked at recent pics and other data, spreadsheets, etc. to verify it.

The only real question I have, is has anyone used LAN ethernet surge suppressors, and do you feel that they work?

My alternative to this is getting a decent measurement of the distance the CAT 5e is presently run, plus some extra, and having a fiber optic cable made to run between the house and shop, which hinges on the fiber optic ends fitting the conduit and making the wide sweep bends.

Now, I know I can use an antenna system to push the signals from one building to the other but given the distance (80 ft) I would prefer to have a physical connection. The metal building disturbs the signal and reception in much of the building directly from the house is poor. A wireless access point inside is still needed for me to use the phone, tablet or laptop on the network unless I am standing in the doorway.

I also am debating installing several 8 ft ground rods around the foundation and bonding them to the building structure. It has the one required ground rod for the electric panel, and of course concrete is rather conductive itself, but the rods may help.

On the good news side, I have finished the radiator installation on my RAM 2500 and have been running it thru heat/cool cycles to bleed the air out of the cooling system. Cummins seems to hide a lot of air in the block and heads and it takes 20 or so cycles to get to the point where the coolant bottle ceases going down after the engine cools off.

Charles
 
80 feet of Cat5e is nothing to worry about.

It's possible the desktop power supply is toasted. Not difficult to replace, but it is just as likely that the motherboard or processor are burned. If you don't have test equipment it's probably not worth investing too much time & money in it.
 
The issue with the Cat 5e is that it is a violation of the NEC to have a metal to metal connection between two buildings that are not electrically connected (and these are not)

And while shielded, there is always a chance of current being induced in the ethernet in the ground during a lightning storm.

I decided to invest in a new power supply, new, exact same p/n and will try that first. I have intentions of buying a new desktop and a new laptop, just don't have it in the budget since the truck's radiator debacle.

Charles
 
Build a faraday cage around the building and use an APC or Tripp Lite line conditioner with an up-sized UPS. And ground everything well. Should do it. :D
 
The fiber connection between the buildings should not be a big deall. There are lots of small, private contractors doing fiber terminations in place. It's not a big deal if you have the tools. Even many of the school IT departments have those tools. The media converters to get from copper to fiber and back can be $$$$ depending on the brand.
 
I understand the desire and reasons for wanting to kick it old school but...

I moved a lot in my career. For years I had ethernet cables strung in the ugliest temporary ways.

About 5 years ago I went mesh and have never looked back. As far as I can tell if there is line of sight it's gonna work great. My base unit is in a window and I have 2 target units on the property. Longest shot is over 150 feet.

I have 4 bar WiFi all over my 2 acre property. One target is in the workshop window with LoS to the base unit.
 
Well if they are designed correctly they do work (Spike supressors). I have not used them however
Have used telephone units.. Do not know if they work or not. (You only know if they do not)
Now the symptoms you cite POP and non-op
Had a desktop do that.. Bug got into the power supply and shorted it out.. Blew a fuse is all.
HOWEVER your problem is not the same.. (The light did not even come on after)
 
The TV that died was a 34 inch Toshiba with built in Amazon Fire. Today I was given a 9 yo 32 inch HiSense flat screen TV that was working when my friend discontinued her Dish TV service (it came with the Dish System and they didn't want it back). I dug out the box the mount came in to get some extra arms and parts that I had not used on the first TV and got it mounted. Tomorrow I will go and buy a basic Fire Stick with a remote $25 at Best Buy or Lowes. I may get a Ethernet to firestick converter so as to run it off the ethernet but it certainly is not necessary, as the Firestick has WIFI capability in it. The TV did have a optical sound output so I just plugged in the existing sound system which consists of two Home Depot clearance rack cheapie sound bars and a optical splitter I got from Amazon.

I may upgrade to a larger new TV someday, but for now, this will work for out in the shop. I mostly LISTEN to documentaries while I am working so video quality is not an issue for now.
Charles
 
The issue with the Cat 5e is that it is a violation of the NEC to have a metal to metal connection between two buildings that are not electrically connected (and these are not)

And while shielded, there is always a chance of current being induced in the ethernet in the ground during a lightning storm.

I decided to invest in a new power supply, new, exact same p/n and will try that first. I have intentions of buying a new desktop and a new laptop, just don't have it in the budget since the truck's radiator debacle.

Charles
I agree with this but that induced currents will happen, just when. Even a solar flare could do it.
Going fibre is not really that expensive, cheaper than replacing parts...

How do you stay away from the Made in China aspect of all these electronics? :unsure:
 
The desktop is a rather old HP Pavilion model. The Western Digital network back up drive appears to have been working properly as there is a mirror image of the HP's on the backup from the day the HP got zapped. Hopefully the new power supply will be here today or tomorrow. Big storm early this morning, and I got up about 4 am and pulled the plugs on a lot of stuff. I even tripped the breakers on the new Bosch heat pump unit as it has an inverter and lots of electronics in it.

Charles
 
Did some backing up today. Went to Best Buy to get a basic Fire Stick, it was $30 plus tax, I thought they were $24, anyhow, turned around and there is a 43 inch 4K Insignia brand (Best Buy house brand) Fire TV for $169, so I figured why waste $30 on the fire stick and still have a 9yo TV that is much smaller. So I took it down and put the new one up. Was a lot of work as I had to move toolboxes and drive the electric lift into place and set up a board and quilt on it to make mounting it a one man job. Got it working on the wifi, gotta figure out the LAN connection, and get it working, but may not bother as it seems to work OK. Its only a few feet from the WIFI5 unit.

Charles
 
While I hate hemorrhaging money, which has happened alot lately, I intend to make a trip next week, to Atlanta's north side to Micro Center and bring back a desktop unit. No sense spending any money on the 10 year old HP.

I did pull the 1TB 3.5 inch SATA harddrive and used a very slick device I have that you plug the drive into and it acts as a USB 3.0 external drive. The ten year old drive worked fine and all the files were there (as they were also on the Western Digital network backup, and I pulled virtually everything over to the laptop.

When I get the new desktop I will set up a backup program (the WD software is no longer supported and so I will need something different to back up to the WD network drive), most likely AOMEI Backupper as it is available as a free version or a more sophisticated upgrade, which I most likely will not need.
 
Let us know how transition to Windows 11 goes.

Did you install the new power supply?
Yes, and the power supply LED came on steady as You would expect it to, but the computer still refused to start or do anything. I was happy to see the hard drive still functioned when I put it in the docking station and that certain critical files on it matched the ones in the WD network backup, so I know that was working OK. I figure it is time to move on, I have been considering a new computer for a while now, then the RAM's radiator leak set me back, and dealing with my neighbor's health issues takes up a bunch of my time getting him to appointments, reviewing Medicare and insurance EOB's and telling him what has to be paid and what to wait on. For someone who is 88 and broke his femur in late March and had rods and screws put in it, he is doing fine, walking totally unassisted and driving. I still have to keep a close eye on him however. Sadly anesthesia does permanent damage to the brain, and it shows when you are old, after a major surgery.

I have become very used to Windows 7 as I have had both the desktop and laptop with it for many years now, and we used it at work (major airline) for two or three years after MS end of life drop dead date. It is one very stable operating system.

I will buy a MS Office Professional package to install (2021), they are readily available for $35 or so from many different vendors, as opposed to the current retail of hundreds of $$$. I have been using Office 2010 on this laptop and 2013 on the desktop and bought them thru a deal my employer had with MS. I think I paid $19 for each package.

Charles.
 
You likely know this but for your application heavily shielded cat 5 cables are best since you seem to be losing equipment from lightening strikes. Many people dispute grounding both ends of the cable is bad but we had real life results. In the factory setting at work the cables had to be heavily shielded because there were multiple electric motors > 10 hp everywhere. At first our hardware guy didn't know about the ground loop effect and grounded both ends which seemed to turn the cable into a giant antenna picking up stray electrical interference. Everything worked great if the surrounding motors were off. As soon as they started communication dropped. After grounding only one end of the cables we had no more problems.
 
If you buy a newer computer you can get great deals on ones with Win 10 installed and is an Intel gen 8 or higher. Because EOL for Win 10 is 2025. And I think Win 11 is still a free upgrade. Even Win 7 had problems in the beginning and Win 8 was a train wreck. After using Win 11 for 2 years I say it is as stable as any release since Win NT. MS claimed Win 11 would have only one update per year. It seems to be more like bi-monthly. But those updates aren't nearly as buggy as Win 10 updates have been.
 
When I get the new desktop I will set up a backup program (the WD software is no longer supported and so I will need something different to back up to the WD network drive)

You might consider DropBox. I chose DB because my employer required DoD level security and chose Box so I figured their commercial version had to be pretty good.

I make sure my PC has a 2tb drive and I pay for 2 tb on DB. Everything I do starts in a root folder called "data" and the entire structure is mirrored on DB. I also have a WD 2TB external drive and about every 6 months I copy paste the structure over there as well.

When I had a laptop failure about 18 months ago I just reinstalled the apps and when I hooked up DB it automatically restored all my data.
 
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