Pop-up tent trailer or A-frame

[Timothy Rover]

Hi, we are new to trailer travel and going through the pros and cons of hard-top tent trailers vs A-frames, on the lighter side for just the two of us, and this question occurred to me, and I'd love to hear from those with experience.
When have you been most pleased at your choice of a pop-up tent trailer or A-frame or other small trailer, and when have you most regretted it?
Thanks, Tim

 

[Onyrlef]

On the plus side they're relatively light weight and low profile, so they're easy towing. They're not for the types who want to spend the day inside an RV, if you're into getting out in the morning and utilizing the camper for mostly a place to sleep, they're the thing. Be advised too, in your neck of the woods (The Northeast) there are some NP's and SP's that don't allow soft side pop-ups (Bears).

 

[DutchmenSport]

I cannot make a comparison between an A-frame and a pop-up, we've never had an A-frame.

But for all the right reasons we loved our pop-up. It was small and light enough that by adding the wheel on the tongue jack, I could easily push it and park it anywhere and in any direction, even at the campsite. Insurance was minimal. I towed it with a mini-van. A larger tow vehicle was not required. Because it was under 3000 pounds brakes were not required and I did not have get a brake controller in the mini van.

The thing we did not like about the pop-up and which was eventually the final straw to trade for a hard sided trailer was because of RAIN!

We had that pop-up for 6 years and honestly.... every single time we took the pop-up out, we'd have rain. Rain itself is not so bad. We stayed dry. But it also rained when we were breaking camp to come home. That ALWAYS meant closing up all that canvas material wet! And it only takes a very, very short time for mold to start.

So when getting home, I'd have to set the camper up and let it dry completely out before folding up again. This was a real pain in the neck. I am no exaggerating by saying, for 6 years we were out almost every time when it rained. Breaking camp with a pop-up in the rain is no fun at all.

THAT was the biggest reason why we decided to trade. The camper did not have an air conditioner. That was factor #2. In Southern Alabama in July, it get's really, really HOT, and no way to cool down was a bit much!

It did have a heater and we did a lot of winter camping ... believe it or not, and loved it! But I had to brush snow off the canvas also, and I could partially open the camper up in the garage and let it dry there.

 

[Yoshi]

Hi,

Not a pop up or A-Frame but a teardrop. Maybe some helpful info. We have a NuCamp TAB 320. It's on the smaller size and they also make a larger TAB 400. It's a solid shell teardrop with very limited set up. It takes us about 15 minutes to pull up, get completely hooked up and ready to explore. Same when we leave, maybe 20 min. at the most. It comes with two twin beds or a single queen size setup. It has AC, hydronic heating, microwave, TV, casette toilet and shower. Comes either with indoor kitchen with gas stove and refrigerator or outdoor clamshell kitchen. What we like most is how easy it is to set up once we get backed in. Like I mentioned, only about 15 minutes to level, unhitch and put stablizers down. Plug in (if not dry camping) and we are done. If fits into very tight spaces and has handles on the outside to turn or move into really tight places. It's light at about 2200 pounds and 350 tongue weight. The heat is very quiet (hydronic..no forced air) and the AC works well. The bathroom is small, but has a toilet to do your business and shower. Not a lot of hot water, but plenty for two peope for 5-7 minute or so showers. It's set up with solar . I added two Li batteries and an inverter. The only thing I don't like is no seperate dinette table. The bed converts in just a few minutes to a dinette area. But I'm an early riser and if's it cold outside, just lay in bed til my wife gets up. If warm outside, I just go outside for my morning coffee. The TAB 400 does have a seperate dinette and bed area, but has a slightly small bed than the TAB 320 and can not be set up as twins. Set up as twin beds allows one of the two persons to use get and use the bathroom without crawling over the other. We use it for weekend get aways and have been gone for months. There are multiple options for outside tents that connect directly to the outside via a keder rail. We have a walker tent that acts as a sunshade canopy only or has sides to totally enclosure an addtional 8 x 15 enclosed area.

The smaller campers are not for everyone, but if it's for you, I would recommend a solid shell tear drop of some kind. No worries if it wet when your ready to leave, minimal setup and take down time. Best wishes.

 

[UTTransplant]

We had pop ups for many years, starting with a Palomino Pony (one full bed, one single bed, and moving larger as kids came then smaller as kids left. We towed it with a mini van, handy for four or five kids and two adults. Setup wasn’t too hard with strong pre teen and teen boys to do the cranking. And a pop up felt more like a tent than any other type of trailer. With a tongue wheel we could move it anywhere to take advantage of views or site. Not so nice things included having to put everything away to fold it up and having to dry the canvas after rain when we got it home. Finally I just wanted a hard sided toilet and shower plus enough waste tank to handle those tasks. Oh, and we had both a propane furnace and a roof AC on all our rigs. We camped from Easter to November.

 

[Contributor]

Had a pop up tent trailer and it was bought brand new, 1995 Jayco 10 ft box.

Good:
Easy to tow
Good towing MPGs
Easy to move around
Fit in the garage
Big beds at both ends

Bad:
Terrible in windy conditions, sleeping at night
Mold if stored wet or moist
12" wheels
No holding tanks
Bear country camping was like tent camping
No overhead storage
Porta potty
Useless refrigerator
Flimsy door
No security when left alone and set up

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Good advice/analysis from Dutchmen, Pedro Dog, & others. We had a tiny pop-up, literally a tent on wheels and then a big fancy one with a hard roof, with a small fridge, oven, sink, & cassette toilet. Big enough to be comfortable on rainy days or chilly evenings. Never owned an A-frame, but have been in them. I think the traditional style pup is more useful than A-frame, but the A-frame is convenient and offers hard sides & roof in a simple package. All depends on how you will use it. The problem for newbies like yourselves is that you really don't know that until you try it out for awhile.

Be aware there are hard-sided traditional popups too, e.g. Trailmanor, so you don't have to go Aframe for the hard walls alone.

I see you are in NY, so I think I'd lean toward a mid-large popup rather than Aframe, simply because you may need the inside room at times. Buy NY weather also means you are likely to fold it up wet at times and then have to unfold to dry it when you get back home. But maybe you have to do that anyway to unpack.

 

[Onyrlef]

Good advice/analysis from Dutchmen, Pedro Dog, & others. We had a tiny pop-up, literally a tent on wheels and then a big fancy one with a hard roof, with a small fridge, oven, sink, & cassette toilet. Big enough to be comfortable on rainy days or chilly evenings. Never owned an A-frame, but have been in them. I think the traditional style pup is more useful than A-frame, but the A-frame is convenient and offers hard sides & roof in a simple package. All depends on how you will use it. The problem for newbies like yourselves is that you really don't know that until you try it out for awhile.

Be aware there are hard-sided traditional popups too, e.g. Trailmanor, so you don't have to go Aframe for the hard walls alone.

I see you are in NY, so I think I'd lean toward a mid-large popup rather than Aframe, simply because you may need the inside room at times. Buy NY weather also means you are likely to fold it up wet at times and then have to unfold to dry it when you get back home. But maybe you have to do that anyway to unpack.

I had a Trailmanor 2720, with Queen beds on each end. They are truly engineering marvels. Their plant is now in SD, I believe. Sold it for 30% more than I paid when the apocalypse hit in 2018 and they were dropping money from helicopters. Wish I had it back now, they're perfect for a quick run down to PINS and boondocking on the beach.

 

[Timothy Rover]

Great stuff, thank you all!
We may just bring a bear-roof cannister when we travel. At home, we keep meat scraps in the freezer until garbage day. We are in hills in the Finger Lakes area, which we love, and I've seen a bear once, and our garbage can passed its sniff test. They're more common elsewhere in town. I've seen the rumor about pop-ups not allowed in parks due to bears, and I know there is one such campground at Yellowstone.
Taking the rain comments to heart, I'm thinking that a small hard-sided A-frame (with brakes!), like Aliner's Ranger 10, would allow a decent night's sleep, good amenities, and let us cook and stand up straight whatever the weather, and that a 10x10 tent could give us more space when needed. Our goal is to get one under 1500 lb. Less money up front and for gas. I looked at a Tab 320, and it seems really excellent, Yoshi, but 50% heavier than we want, while the lighter teardrops are pretty confining.
Snowing here. No robins yet.
Tim

 

[PancakeBill]

Our first was a tent trailer, I am guessing about the same as Gary mentioned. All canvas top. Very lightweight, no amenities. Towed with a 1973 Subaru. (it was new Subaru). It was our very firt and bought it probably 51 years ago this month. Great first trailer. I have seen the A frames and not really impressed. Not sure of all of them, but the frew I saw had a porta-potti under the dinette seat. Efficient I guess.
If I were starting again, I would go with either the hybrid or hardtop popup. Better interior room. But then you get into weightws, and this is where you will need to select proper tow vehicle.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Taking the rain comments to heart, I'm thinking that a small hard-sided A-frame (with brakes!), like Aliner's Ranger 10, would allow a decent night's sleep, good amenities, and let us cook and stand up straight whatever the weather, and that a 10x10 tent could give us more space when needed.

That sounds to me like a solid plan, but be aware that only the trailer UVW (empty weight) is under 1500 lbs. You are going to add a lot more weight to that, despite what you probably think. Not to mention the hitch [including WD?]. For example, where does that bear cannister go? Camp chairs? A BBQ grill? Etc.

Forest River's Rockwood line has some potential A-frame trailers for you as well.

I was born and raised in Rome NY, so familiar with the Finger Lakes area and camping there, plus the Adirondacks as well. We utilized two different pups in those areas but that was many, many years ago.

 

[Timothy Rover]

Thanks, Gary,

Our reference point is tent camping out of a car, so we won't be bringing too much stuff, altogether.
No cast iron, but lightweight dishes, pots, etc. We'll cook on the stove provided, use the campground facilities, etc. There will be capacity within the towing limit for a mattress topper, kitchen gear, food in the fridge and such. We'll have the Rav4 with about 850 lb of cargo capacity in addition to us. We'll be weighing our gear and tongue weight. NY requires trailer brakes on anything over 1000 lb gross weight. We'll take it easy driving, abide by all the towing advice, etc. Preparing for this is turning out to be a lot of fun.

 

[Onyrlef]

Thanks, Gary,

Our reference point is tent camping out of a car, so we won't be bringing too much stuff, altogether.
No cast iron, but lightweight dishes, pots, etc. We'll cook on the stove provided, use the campground facilities, etc. There will be capacity within the towing limit for a mattress topper, kitchen gear, food in the fridge and such. We'll have the Rav4 with about 850 lb of cargo capacity in addition to us. We'll be weighing our gear and tongue weight. NY requires trailer brakes on anything over 1000 lb gross weight. We'll take it easy driving, abide by all the towing advice, etc. Preparing for this is turning out to be a lot of fun.

Looks like a Rav 4 w/V6 has a max tow rating for 3500 lbs, meaning you should strive to keep it at 80% of that (2800 lbs or so). Brakes on a camper being towed by a smaller SUV like the Rav 4 will be your new best friend. Word to the wise too, do any frying ( especially bacon) outside. You're gonna love it.

 

[Timothy Rover]

Thanks, Onyrlef. Thou shalt not cook bacon inside, I guess. When we cook inside, we'll run the fan and open the windows. BTW, we'll travel light, just a couple hundred in the trailer, plus the trailer weight of about 1450, as the towing capacity of the Rav4 HYBRID (I meant to say) is 1750.
Yeah, I'm eager to get going!

 

[tlmgcamp]

Trailer. 1450
Cargo. 200 as stated above
Hitch. 50
TOTAL 1700
Towing capacity 1750
Remaining capacity 50 pounds

I've heard varying info on what is in tow capacity. For instance, is the driver included? is the gas tank full? etc. For the purpose of discussion, let's assume that driver and gas are accounted for in the capacity and that you are not heavier than the assumed driver accounted for in the capacity. That leaves you 50 pounds for a passenger before you hit the max for the vehicle.

 

[Contributor]

Here is a real world test towing with the RAV4 Hybrid

 

[Contributor]

I was remembering what we actually packed in our tent trailer and it was very little. Fresh water was 5 gallons (41.5 lbs). Could only load a couple of boxes with food and supplies on the floor when folded down, maybe 30-50 lbs. So the trailer did not weight much more than empty. The rest of the stuff went into the tow vehicle.

 

[Onyrlef]

Well done test video, I'm impressed with the hybrid's performance. There's no chance a stand alone ICE in a Rav 4 would have performed as well under those conditions. The electric assist made quite a difference. Many F1 cars are using electric assist btw, also.

 

[Timothy Rover]

Trailer. 1450
Cargo. 200 as stated above
Hitch. 50
TOTAL 1700
Towing capacity 1750
Remaining capacity 50 pounds

I've heard varying info on what is in tow capacity. For instance, is the driver included? is the gas tank full? etc. For the purpose of discussion, let's assume that driver and gas are accounted for in the capacity and that you are not heavier than the assumed driver accounted for in the capacity. That leaves you 50 pounds for a passenger before you hit the max for the vehicle.

I am treating the 3 limits separately, gross weight of the car, gross weight of the trailer and towing capacity, except that I would count the tongue weight on the car; and as long as the trailer has brakes controlled by the driver of the car.
The ratings for gross weights of the two vehicles are set by engineers who understand the strength of the vehicle structures, particularly the axles. Similarly, they have some means by which they calculate the car's ability to pull, but not bear, extra weight. Pulling something on wheels is a lot easier than carrying it, for cars as well as people. I suppose engineers take into account the stresses and strains of bumps, curves, and hills, and build in margins of safety to account for decrepit vehicles, and people who can't resist overloading their wheels (and then publicly boast of) or don't understand towing rules.
I've only found one clear statement online, from Kelley Blue Book which only partly clears up some of the confusion:
“A vehicle’s payload capacity is the maximum amount of weight it can safely carry. In a car or SUV, that includes all of the weight in the cabin and trunk. In a truck, it consists of all of the weight in the cabin and bed. If you’re pulling a trailer, the payload also includes the weight of the trailer pushing down on the trailer hitch — something called tongue weight.”
I've seen nothing from any car manufacturer, and lots of confusion otherwise.
Experience will also be a good teacher for us. Can we go uphill at a reasonable speed, or should we look for a different route? How much more often should we change oil or transmission fluid? Is there more vehicle prep we can do to ease the stress of carrying and pulling our stuff? I expect towing can shorten the life of some part of a car in almost every case, but that's an unavoidable part of the cost, like gas.

 

[DutchmenSport]

"I expect towing can shorten the life of some part of a car in almost every case, but that's an unavoidable part of the cost, like gas."

You made me chuckle on that statement! I think the shortest life span on anything in an automobile, especially when towing an RV .... is the gas!