Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
If the Rav4 tow rating was done to the SAE J2807 standard like Toyota pickups are, then it does include a driver and passenger. This article explains the basics.
Pop-up tent trailer or A-frame
- Thread starter Timothy Rover
- Start date
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Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Unless you are exceptionally vigilant, that will soon change. The amount of gear you bring expands to [over] fill the available space. If you were going to stay with tent-camping limitations, you probably wouldn't be buying a trailer.
Few vehicles can handle both the max cargo capacity and max tow capacity at the same time. The limitation is the GCWR (max combined weight) and that is rarely equal to the GVWR + Tow Capacity.
Which Rav4 model are you looking at? The Rav4 Hybrid is rated for 1750 lbs towing but the Prime (Plug-in Hybrid) is 2250.
Laura & Charles
Well-known member
An alternate plan?
For 6-8 years running, we camped with two of my wife’s brothers at a federal lake walleye fishing. Week or two.
One brother had an A frame, the other a pop up. We had our class A.
The side by side comparison between the A frame and pop up definitely favored the pop up among all concerned.
One brother had an A frame, the other a pop up. We had our class A.
The side by side comparison between the A frame and pop up definitely favored the pop up among all concerned.
airborne_spoon
Well-known member
I was looking at a-frames and pop-up tent trailers when i was looking for my first trailer. I ended up going with a teardrop Bushwhacker 10HD.
i didn't like the pop up because there isn't much storage when its closed and there is no kitchen so I'd have to setup a kitchen every time i set up camp. Also the ones that have a kitchen area inside i didn't care for and also you're then sleeping in the kitchen so smells will linger. also you have to clean a lot more often as grease splatters farther than people think.
With a teardrop my kitchen is always ready to use, is outside under cover and separated from the sleeping area, and there is a crapton of storage inside while traveling. Everyone has their own reason for buying whatever they buy so these are my reasons for why i didn't go with the models you're looking at.
i didn't like the pop up because there isn't much storage when its closed and there is no kitchen so I'd have to setup a kitchen every time i set up camp. Also the ones that have a kitchen area inside i didn't care for and also you're then sleeping in the kitchen so smells will linger. also you have to clean a lot more often as grease splatters farther than people think.
With a teardrop my kitchen is always ready to use, is outside under cover and separated from the sleeping area, and there is a crapton of storage inside while traveling. Everyone has their own reason for buying whatever they buy so these are my reasons for why i didn't go with the models you're looking at.
Astrocamper
Member
This thread is over a month old, but I just read it and thought I'd post my experience. In this and your other thread, several people advised you the Rav4 Hybrid would not be good for towing a 1500 lb trailer. It actually does very well with the trailer I have, an Aliner Scout Lite, which is similar to the Ranger 10. It tows remarkably well, no sway whatsoever even when I've had 18 wheelers pass me going very fast in the other direction on a windy day on a narrow two-lane highway. My trailer is 1319 lbs dry, 1532 lbs loaded, weighed on a CAT scale. Tongue weight is usually around 158-160, weighed on a bathroom scale. Average 29-30 mpg towing in the rolling hills of Virginia. I keep my speed at 60 mph or less. With the Rav4 Hybrid, cargo capacity, axle ratings, etc. aren't going to be your limiting factors- it will be the 1750 lb. tow rating and 175 lb. tongue limit.
That said, you might find the Scout Lite or the Ranger 10 too small for two people. The two bed version has very narrow beds, especially the front one, but I'm 6'1" and it's comfortable for me. Having a fold out dormer in front helps with the headroom there. I'm mostly by myself, but my wife comes with me on occasion and it's cozy but doable. It's 7'2" at the peak inside. No problem lounging in there if it's a rainy day. If we want more room, we have our house for that. This is camping, although we cook with a microwave, have a/c, and comfy mattresses, so we're not exactly roughing it!
If you go with a larger camper or a popup, you'll need a tow vehicle with more capacity (next step up- Highlander hybrid?). Otherwise you'll have to go with a smaller teardrop, the type that's basically a bed on wheels.
That said, you might find the Scout Lite or the Ranger 10 too small for two people. The two bed version has very narrow beds, especially the front one, but I'm 6'1" and it's comfortable for me. Having a fold out dormer in front helps with the headroom there. I'm mostly by myself, but my wife comes with me on occasion and it's cozy but doable. It's 7'2" at the peak inside. No problem lounging in there if it's a rainy day. If we want more room, we have our house for that. This is camping, although we cook with a microwave, have a/c, and comfy mattresses, so we're not exactly roughing it!
If you go with a larger camper or a popup, you'll need a tow vehicle with more capacity (next step up- Highlander hybrid?). Otherwise you'll have to go with a smaller teardrop, the type that's basically a bed on wheels.
Timothy Rover
Member
Thanks Gary! Toyota seems cagey about how they set tow ratings for cars, and I don't think there's a car standard like the SAE J2807 for trucks. I read that Toyota was the first carmaker to adopt SAE J2807, so it seems very likely that it informs their method of setting the limit for cars. Some articles explain some of the tests, so I plan on taking our Ranger 10 through some of the paces, which will also be good practice for we newbies.
Timothy Rover
Member
What a hoot! That'd be one slow bug going up hill, I bet.
Timothy Rover
Member
Thanks for your excellent and encouraging report, Astrocamper. We expect a trim but not Spartan packing list will make this work. Our needs are pretty basic, and we'll be on the move every couple days. Had the hitch receiver and 7-pin installed, will pick up the Ranger 10 in two weeks, and then we'll see how it goes!
Astrocamper
Member
Pay special attention to your tongue weight. When I picked up my Scout Lite, it had a lead acid battery on the tongue installed by the dealer, no propane tanks, and the tongue weight was 204 lbs, even though they weighed it at 142 at the factory. It doesn't have the battery when they weigh it- that's installed by the dealer. I removed the battery and installed a LiFePO4 under the rear bunk, then I could add a small 5 lb propane tank to the tongue and with judicious loading I got the tongue weight down below the 175 lb limit.
I don't think you're going to be able to be under the tongue weight limit on the Ranger 10 if you're planning on having a battery and one or two 20 lb propane tanks on the tongue because the dry tongue weight is about 175 lbs with nothing on the tongue. You could pack most of your stuff under the rear bunk and in the outside compartment and that will reduce the tongue weight some, and it's close to the axle so no sway generated, but that's probably not enough. You could also do like I do and use a microwave instead of propane if you're going to be mostly camping with an electric hookup. Packing lighter stuff in the rear compartment of the RAV4 will also help keep extra weight off the rear axle. You'll just have to be creative.
I don't think you're going to be able to be under the tongue weight limit on the Ranger 10 if you're planning on having a battery and one or two 20 lb propane tanks on the tongue because the dry tongue weight is about 175 lbs with nothing on the tongue. You could pack most of your stuff under the rear bunk and in the outside compartment and that will reduce the tongue weight some, and it's close to the axle so no sway generated, but that's probably not enough. You could also do like I do and use a microwave instead of propane if you're going to be mostly camping with an electric hookup. Packing lighter stuff in the rear compartment of the RAV4 will also help keep extra weight off the rear axle. You'll just have to be creative.
Old Radios
Well-known member
No pop up with soft sides if you plan on camping in the woods unless you plan on not having any food inside ever. Bears love the easy open ends. A's are nice but still need to be set up to use. We use ours for traveling also so went with a large teardrop so we could have access to it anytime with no set up and overnight in parking lots and rest areas when on the road.
Timothy Rover
Member
Old Radios, that 'ready anytime' aspect is great. We are looking to keep things light and efficient, especially as we plan to travel pretty far. We traded in our Prius Prime for a used Rav4 Hybrid, because it is also pretty efficient. It limits us to 1,750 lb towing capacity. The Ranger 10 seems, with its amenities and the hard sides, to be pretty optimal, and of course a low profile when on the road. We'll have to opt for the light-weight versions of everything we bring, I think.
I'd like to know, how many miles per gallon do people get with their rigs? With a set-up a lot like ours will be, Astrocamper's 29-30 mpg seems like the highest attainable, yeah?
I'd like to know, how many miles per gallon do people get with their rigs? With a set-up a lot like ours will be, Astrocamper's 29-30 mpg seems like the highest attainable, yeah?
Timothy Rover
Member
Astrocamper, we've run into an interesting twist related to the Rav4 Hybrid part of this. More than 400,000 of them made between August 2018 and November 2022 may develop corrosion on junctions of the high-current cables between battery and wheel motors, which can lead to an alert message on the dash, and eventually cause the car computer to prevent the car restarting. Fortunately, for some of us, a symptom shows up before the car computer seems to notice it. If you ever notice your AM radio getting noisy when shifting out of park into gear or when you are braking, as it does for us, then it's likely that your Rav4 has this issue, too. I've attached the info I've gotten about Toyota's Customer Support Program on this. Fixing it is free if there is an issue. Toyota should have sent notices to all affected owners; having just bought ours used, we weren't informed.
Naturally, the parts aren't stocked, so it will be a while before they can replace the cables. Meanwhile, next week, we pick up our camper 3 hours from home. We were told that if the alert shows up on the dash, and we turn the car off, we may not be able to restart it. Could add some extra adventure to our first towing experience!
WME
Well-known member
OK we're Class A people now and love it. But we started with a 8ft tent trailer it had a double bed on one end and take down table and an icebox, heater and 2 burner stove. The setup and take down problems others have related to led to a 13ft hard side which was about the same size inside but it was always set up.
Got tired of the Portapotty thing and the driver wanting a sandwich on the go, so the next up was 19 ft Class C, yea bathroom, shower and 9mpg. After a few years another trade to a 21 ft Toyota Class C a little more room and 14 MPG.
ALL of these are to be considered a hotel room on wheels. When you get there, you go outside and do your thing. At night you come back to your room have a bite and sleep. Setting up and taking down the dinette/bed setups even becomes a PIA so most get left in the bed mode.
Even in the "huge" 21 ft, after 2 days of rain there were 2 crazy people inside. So get the biggest you can afford and tow with your current automobile.
If your camping forget about AC, if you plan on being in an RV park then AC is doable. A small 200w solar setup will just about run a small trailer forever and let you watch a video, charge cellphones, laptops.
Not a real answer about tent vs A frame.
I
Got tired of the Portapotty thing and the driver wanting a sandwich on the go, so the next up was 19 ft Class C, yea bathroom, shower and 9mpg. After a few years another trade to a 21 ft Toyota Class C a little more room and 14 MPG.
ALL of these are to be considered a hotel room on wheels. When you get there, you go outside and do your thing. At night you come back to your room have a bite and sleep. Setting up and taking down the dinette/bed setups even becomes a PIA so most get left in the bed mode.
Even in the "huge" 21 ft, after 2 days of rain there were 2 crazy people inside. So get the biggest you can afford and tow with your current automobile.
If your camping forget about AC, if you plan on being in an RV park then AC is doable. A small 200w solar setup will just about run a small trailer forever and let you watch a video, charge cellphones, laptops.
Not a real answer about tent vs A frame.
I
Wouldn't being on the alert for AM radio noise be like keeping a rooster for an alarm clock? I don't think I've listened to AM since we got our first FM station in the 60's.
Ex-Calif
Well-known member
I tent camped for years, decided I am too feeble to sleep on the ground any longer. I like the RV for extended travel/ long stays but it's a bit "too much" for weekending.
There are a lot of drawbacks to a soft sided camping solution. I looked at pop ups and then bought a teardrop primarily due to the canvas sides and longer setup time.
There are a lot of drawbacks to a soft sided camping solution. I looked at pop ups and then bought a teardrop primarily due to the canvas sides and longer setup time.
After years of motorhomes and trailers I moved and I had to keep a Class A in storage because it couldn't turn down the narrow rural roads. I bought a popup in 2008 I could keep in the driveway and sold the motorhome. By 2014 my wife had tired of the inconveniences of the popup. So we bought a Class C that could turn sharp enough to get to my house. We still enjoyed taking the popup out a few times a year because you feel closer to nature. Since the motorhome is ready to leave anytime and only requires plugging in electric and water when we get there we decided to sell the popup last year. We had grown attached to the popup but sold it to one of the hosts at campground we frequent. He uses it for fishing trips and takes better care of it than I did. It's nice to see it being kept in pristine condition whenever we go there.
Astrocamper
Member
Haha, yes, I haven't listened to AM in many moons.
The RAV4 Hybrid has had some serious quality or design issues in recent model years. Besides the potential for high voltage cable corrosion (most but not all so far in northern areas that use a lot of road salt), there is the documented potential for roof rail leaks, fuel pump leak, and gas tank that won't fill completely. And they were slow to address them. My VIN falls under all of those. So much for legendary Toyota quality!
There's someone on Reddit r/aliner who posted that they towed a Ranger 10 out west with their 2020 RAV4 Hybrid and it did well, although a bit slow in the mountains. As I noted, though, OP needs to watch their tongue weight- I think that will be their biggest issue with the Ranger 10.
gwinger
Well-known member
20 years camping with this one. I guess you could consider it a pop-up. King size bed off the ground, 6x6 room and 22cuft. of storage. Pulled behind my motorcycle. No bathroom, no water storage, but I did wire it for power. Small ceramic heater and had a small 12 inch tv.
Lot's of good memories. I now have a toy hauler, but this still gets used for weekend trips.
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Lot's of good memories. I now have a toy hauler, but this still gets used for weekend trips.
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blw2
Well-known member
When we started in a smaller pop-up it was great... coming form a tent it was great.
Soon became a lot of work.... had to unload stuff out of it to set it up, then reload the stuff + load stuff from the truck.... then reverse to put it away to go home.... not to mention the work of cranking it up, leveling, etc...
After a few years it changed form a seriously upgraded tent to a small RV... to a really complicated RV.
It seemed it was always wet too...either from dew or rain when we'd have to fold it up...so that meant re-opening it agin when we got home...and ultimately reclosing it again after it dried....
We always did love the space though, and the open feeling of it.
Never did have an A frame, but for a couple it seems like it would be a better compromise...much more cramped feeling and many of the same headaches, but perhaps a little easier??
Soon became a lot of work.... had to unload stuff out of it to set it up, then reload the stuff + load stuff from the truck.... then reverse to put it away to go home.... not to mention the work of cranking it up, leveling, etc...
After a few years it changed form a seriously upgraded tent to a small RV... to a really complicated RV.
It seemed it was always wet too...either from dew or rain when we'd have to fold it up...so that meant re-opening it agin when we got home...and ultimately reclosing it again after it dried....
We always did love the space though, and the open feeling of it.
Never did have an A frame, but for a couple it seems like it would be a better compromise...much more cramped feeling and many of the same headaches, but perhaps a little easier??
