The RV industry's quality problem

[Peanutman]

Reminds me of the mobile home industry. When first married (22yrs ago) we bought a new Schultz mobile home. There were numerous issues, roof leak and the major problem a leak under the dishwasher just a drip that ruined the kitchen floor.
It was under warranty but they had to tear up the whole kitchen floor.

My heartland has been back to dealer only once for de-lamination issues and a water leak at the outside shower faucet, leak in shower stall. Later on site HWH went out, a gas valve shorted out and burner out the control board. Suburban fixed it under warranty. I have found various other issues that are irritating.

Saw dust under every cabinet, scattered nails for months in the carpet, stuff coming loose and i am stationary.

The Heartland i bought is a mid-profile  line real nice on the surface some extras you will find in a higher priced models. It listed for $51,000 but nowhere near what i paid for it.

My Chevy 2500. Near the same price, also not what i paid for it has had no warranty issues at almost 15,000 miles

I would like to have seen better workmanship in my trailer. I guess the industry is what it is. When you pay near or above what you pay for an automobile you do expect the same quality or at least i did.

Well back to reality. I live next door to a on-site RV repair guy. He has some interesting stories to say the least.

Until you get up into the top line models expect flaws. Should it be that way, i don't think so.

We did look at Airstream and if i was Jammer based on what they cost and the fact they claim best built in the industry i would be irritated as well.

I hear these issues across the board. At least i know now what to look for next time i buy.

Is a 5er or a bumper pull as sophisticated as a automobile. Not even close. Motor home now you are on a similar level.

 

[Tim Lassen]

I have a 2007 Chevy 2500 duramax, short bed, crew cab.  It doesn't have a lot of miles on it, but it does get serviced twice a year.  I love the truck but it also has problems now and then.  Each time it is serviced  another recall item is taken care of.

 

[denmarc]

After reading this thread from beginning to end, I ask if I can throw this spin on the issue?

Some of you may remember that I am a trucker by trade.  Over the years I have hauled an awful lot of auto parts to assembly plants and PDC's (Parts Distribution Centers).  I have also pulled a flatbed for 8 years hauling aluminum sheet and coil to RV manufacturers in northern Indiana and southern Michigan.  Coaches, TT's, Pop-up's, utility trailers, emergency vehicles, shuttle busses, etc., all built with the metal I brought them.

After almost 30 years of doing my job, I have learned one thing.  The BOTTOM LINE is the almighty dollar.

Without trying to start a feud...

The unions at the auto plants are crying that they have made too many concessions while the rest of the country is saying we can't afford it anymore, the RV industry is just trying to stay afloat in my neck of the woods resulting in lay-offs galore starting over 2 years ago.  The list of hurting companies is almost endless.  Even GM is wondering why everyone didn't go out and buy a Chevy Volt like they predicted!

Yes, the two industries are very similar.  Because the manufacturers of each are really interested in only one thing...
Profits.

It's common sense. When economy takes a downturn, bottom of the line suppliers (vendors) get hit first.  Orders from manufacturers get cancelled.  Vendors start to suffer.  Manufacturers slow down/stop as JIT parts run out, lay-offs begin.  Unemployment benefits run out.  Blah, blah, blah...
We have all been watching/reading it for way too long.

It does not matter one bit if the final product is a RV, or an automobile/truck.  The only way any manufacturer can save cost these days is to cut back on quality.  Regardless of product line.  It just plain cost too much now days to produce a product, be competitive, and make a profit for the company anymore.  Let alone pay it's employee's a decent wage and health care benefits.

Bottom line?...
We all suffer.

Ever wonder why there are so many staffing agencies now days?

 

[browne07]

I guess the same can be said for the service industry as well. Poor training for employees who probably should not even be working in the food service industry. Maybe less people take pride in doing a job done well now too.

 

[FrankNichols]

Maybe less people take pride in doing a job done well now too.

Less people take pride because less employers show respect for their employees. Employees are just a necessary business expense to most employers.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Less people take pride because less employers show respect for their employees. Employees are just a necessary business expense to most employers.

You're not just whistling Dixie! Thank God I'm retired!

 

[Molaker]

Less people take pride because less employers show respect for their employees. Employees are just a necessary business expense to most employers.

Tis true.  So this is where the employee should strive to make his contribution less expensive and more valueable by doing the best job he can.  Unfortunately, many employers (most, it seems nowadays) don't recognize the value - just the expense.  Pride in one's work can certainly take a beating if the value of the work is not appreciated.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Reminds me of the mobile home industry. When first married (22yrs ago) we bought a new Schultz mobile home...

That brings back memories. The first mobile home I ever had was a Shult (back in '72). We bought it used so any quality control issues had already been addressed.

...Is a 5er or a bumper pull as sophisticated as a automobile. Not even close...

Totally agree!

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I guess the same can be said for the service industry as well. Poor training for employees who probably should not even be working in the food service industry. Maybe less people take pride in doing a job done well now too.

I could tell you horror tales from when I worked in a convenience store. I will never eat hot food from one of them.

 

[Peanutman]

I could tell you horror tales from when I worked in a convenience store. I will never eat hot food from one of them.

I have been in the Pest Control industry for 23 yrs. If you seen what i have seen in a lot of restuarant kitchens you wouldn't eat at a lot of those either.

 

[Icemaker]

People, people, people...This is a money problem from the start..
The mfg want's maximum profit..the worker wants maximum pay, the buyer wants maximum bang-for-his-buck.
Now the mfg knows if he can put out more units in a given time period he will increase his bottom line.
The worker, I doubt there's a union involved and if there is it is afraid of ruffling feathers, knows that if he/she can't keep up w/production a replacement, who is less qualified and is willing to slam-it-in, is waiting just a phone call away.
Now to the buyer....more bang-for-the-buck  Joe, sorry if I catch some Joe unjustly, is all about NOT spending money. I'm right up there too. He will settle for lower quality in hopes it is good enough, same as the mfg & worker.
When the unit leaves the production line on time the assembly side has made it's expense/profit margin. Some other department/book-keeping entity now is in charge of minimizing any loss. Now comes the financial shell-game. Each party looks to blame the other.
I believe that there will be a future for better quality imports just as the car industry has experienced when imports sold better for equal or less.
Again if you follow-the-money you'll see that the left hand isn't talking to the right hand. Each little "kingdom", from mfg to buyer and all in between, is trying to maximum it's profit line and to heck with anybody else. 
As for unions, of which I belong to, no they are not perfect. However, lets remember the union movement was influential in the 5 day work week, the 40 hour work week, the overtime pay for more than 8 hours and or 40 hours, the child labor laws, equal pay and benefits for workers, also work place safety and conditions. When unions were started children, some less than 10 years of age were working in factory's and mines. The average work week was 6 days, and 60+ hours with little or no concern for the workers. Now before you flame me off the site I'm not saying the union is the salvation of the worker..(cringing as I type) but neither is it automatically  the blame for companies failing to make quality products. There are unionized companies making a profit every day and produce quality work/products.
Do some people get greedy..well of course and that puts me back to the beginning of this rant.

 

[jje1960]

Business is business.... I owned a business (not RV building) we ran for 8 yrs, solid plan... nothing but the best with service and customer attention.  Unfortunately, other businesses promised unbelievable (and unsustainable) unlimited service plans.... it worked for them, drove us out of business.  Really hurt, putting people out of work... but mostly, knowing that the short-time advertising was nothing but the others way of consolidating position... which led to horrible service for our customers... they pay more now and we are out of business.  Actually, the power of Keystone has really turned out pretty good from my perspective, good balance between quality and value, I have a nice RV for affordable $.

 

[Jammer]

Obviously the RV business is highly cost sensitive.  Buyers want the most square feet and best features for the money.  At least that's the conventional wisdom.

I think that the industry gets away with all kinds of things because there are many RVs that either don't travel or are hardly ever camped in or both.  I'm not an industry insider so I don't see the statistics but from what I've seen there are a fair number of people who park their RVs seasonally, a fair number of people for whom RVing never really works out, and a fair number of people who don't really rely on the systems in their RVs much and just treat them as a portable tent or a really big car.  And some people figure that well it's just an RV so you have to expect that maybe the windows won't close quite right and the light in the fridge won't work.

Probably 9 out of 10 buyers, if they bought a trailer like mine, would not insist that Airstream fix the back window so it would close ($1500).  So the manufacturers don't feel the financial effects of poor quality.

 

[tallyo]

But are the quality of the foreign cars still better than American? Were the unions part of a big problem for the US industry?  Still don't think we should compare the auto industry, which manufactures millions of units each year, to an industry that makes a few hundred thousand and most of the manufactured parts are household parts which break down with the same regularity that they do in our homes primarily because they get banged around on rough roads . We don't have a lot of problems with engines and transmissions in MH's

 

[Icemaker]

But are the quality of the foreign cars still better than American? Were the unions part of a big problem for the US industry? .....

Yes as much as I hate to say it, and I really do, unions were a problem in that they did what they could to maximize pay & benefits for their constituents. And management didn't have the incentive to resist as the profit margin was good and there was essentially no competition. By the time they realized they were getting their

lunches

taken it was very hard to resist the union pressure and union didn't want to give anything back as well as management didn't want to reduce it's pay & perks either..both sides waited too long to try to dodge the bullet and it hurt deeply.

 

[keith g]

the bottom line is...if we don't take the manufacturers to task on these things,and the RV magazines are partly to blame,there should be mid life write ups on used MH's........new ones should be critiqued thoroughly......yes you may lose a few manufacturers for a while,but only until the sales dry up and they pull there finger out!
i'm a boat owner and i'm appalled at the build quality of these units....if these were boats they would quickly be bankrupt!

 

[kenz]

Straight up, quality in the RV business sucks. And I believe as long as people are buying there is no incentive to increase quality. Better quality doesn't have to cost more. I blame the problem on management and unskilled labor. Mainly, most workers in the factories (from what I've been told) are acquired from businesses that supply workers. What gets me about this is that most places just before 90 days lays the worker off, and then gets another to replace him. Company saves on benefits, etc. (Friend of mine's brother went thru this revolving door for a few years).

Now, how much quality is the worker going to put into his job, knowing that no matter what, he may very well be on the unemployment line in 2 1/2 months? And it cost money to properly train a worker, so why not just give him a once over instruction and let him go at it, hoping for the best. And if he isn't any good at it, just replace him in 89 days anyway. I believe that if they hire an individual, train him properly, and with the knowledge that if he does a good job he will be there for a long time, he may take a little more pride in his work. The problems I see in new RV's are mostly fit and finish problems. A properly trained employee with good QC should never miss a screw, miss a hinge, have miss aligned holes, leaking plumbing, etc. Yes they will use cheaper materials, but proper fit and finish should be a given.

This problem is industry wide. If you're competition is at the same level as you, why change? And as long as the buying public will purchase it regardless, why change? I don't believe a foreign country will come in and force the industry to change. Unlike the auto industry, the numbers are just not there to warrant Japan or China, or whoever to jump in. I believe that it will take one or two manufacturers to bite the bullet and change the way they build there units to force the rest to follow. But then again, if everyone is willing to spend the money first, then complain, nothing will ever change.

 

[PatrioticStabilist]

So now you have to admit even though unions overdid it, they did have a place.  And the reason they came into being was employment practices just like this, no security, no benefits, poor treatment.

Seems there needs to be a happy medium somewhere doesn't there.

 

[donandmax]

The Europeans are producing quality coaches, all diesels, smaller, well designed with good quality control. We'll learn or we'll see an influx of quality RVs from overseas like we did automobiles.

X-2 Bob Ive said this many a time.. My thoughts are the price of gas in the future will keep many of us from buying and that will end the quality issue. You hardly ever see a moho or camping trailer on the road in Europe. Reason ? Gas prices. One day their going up and wont come down.. It may not affect some of you but it will us. So we are enjoying are moho while we can still afford it. Summer driving only winter is too much of a hassel..