the saga begins...

[baadpuppy]

or something like that.  ;D

Anyway, I've spent a lot of time the last few weeks working on the exterior of the motorhome (pressure washing, scrubbing, and eternabond installation).  Today as soon as I got on the roof the clouds blew away and the temperature rose about 15 degrees in about 15 minutes, so I gave up on exterior work for the day and started interior work.

In the rear bedroom area, I removed the empty tv box, the clothes hamper cabinet, and the foldout pocket door.  This resulted in a significant increase in accessibilty to one side of the bed.  I'm quite pleased with the results.  I also partly disassembled the closet there as I need to do some repair work inside the wall.  I haven't yet started carpet removal.

In the front of the motorhome, I removed most of the overhead entertainment center.  The amount of water damage I found was more extensive than I expected.  I also discovered there is NO insulation in that area.  Also lots of wires that are just capped off, I'm guessing for options I don't have.  My plan is to completely eliminate the central TV box as it is a major source of headaches and is really too small for a decent TV.  I haven't yet decided exactly how I'll lay everything out up there, but I do intend to do a better job of space utilization and insulation.  I also plan to move the dash fans to be hanging from the above panel.

I plan to locate the TV to the central dash area, just above the engine access.  This area of the dash is mostly useless as it is, with just a single non-functioning A/C vent there.  In fact, much of the dash is "wasted" space, so I may have some fun with that. 

At some point, I also need to replace some ceiling panels and a few wall panels.  I'm not looking forward to that part of the work.  But, it must get done.  Just as soon as I've finished all the patching and dried the interior out.

All the carpeting will be coming out.  I'll recarpet the bedroom with berger, and probably put down linoleum for the kitchen and bathroom area, and I'm thinking laminate flooring for the living room area, and then carpeting again for the cab.

I would love to figure out a way to make the steering column move forward about 4 to 6 inches so that the normal driving position would be near the side windows.  As it is right now, if I turn my head 90 degrees left or right, I see solid wall instead of windows.  Makes it difficult to pull out of places without an assistant.  Even leaning forward (after tilting the steering all the way up) I can't be more than about 15 degrees off of a 90 degree access to a road.

Anyway, enough rambling.  Looks like I've got enough work ahead of me to last the winter and then some.

jim

 

[Ron]

Sounds like your project is well under way.  Would appreciate some before, during, and after photos if possible.  Hope you can get er done for spring.

 

[baadpuppy]

Ron,

I don't really have any good before photos aside from the ones the previous owner took.

I'll try to take some during shots when I get some batteries for the camera.  That thing eats them like mad.

I'll definitely have to take some after shots.

Did more demo work today.  Dad and I pulled down the rest of the over-cab cabinetry and put wirenuts on the dangling 110V wire.  We also started removing the buckling wall, and discovered that everything inside that wall is soaking wet. 

Later I pulled down the cabinet between the entry door and passenger seat, and took more wall down.

Looks like the primary construction is a huge aluminum frame wall with very few ribs.  From outside to inside it appears to be fiberglass, thin plywood, pink foam, thin plywood, luan, vinyl wall cover all glued together.  The roof seems to be a large aluminum frame with more ribs and rests on top of the side walls.  A piece of angle aluminum is bolted to both the top and side.  There is a piece of curved aluminum bolted over that.

Looks like it has leaked for a very long time.  I'm able to pull much of the wood out with my hands and it just disintegrates.  The amount of mold is unpleasant as well.

Also, turns out all the cabinetry is built as a frame, installed, then panelling installed to finish it covering all the mounting hardware.  So in order to remove it, you pretty much have to tear it up.  I'm saving anything that is salvageable, but that is a short list.  Hinges are fortunately on the list.  ;D

The ceiling/roof seems to be a single piece construction.  I mean, it is an aluminum frame, with an aluminum skin on top, white styrofoam 1.5" of pink foam insulation in the middle, then luan, thin layer of headliner foam, and then a layer of whiteish vinyl with lots of pinholes in it.  However, at least 4 or 5 sections of luan in the front appear to need replacing due to water damage.  I can't decide if it is worth trying to remove the luan and lower layers or just try to cover it all up.

On the plus side, I think insulation materials have improved, so I'm hoping that anywhere I expose foam that I can replace it with something with a better R value.  Most places the foam is 1" thick, the roof is 1.5" thick.

I also suspect much of the water damage happened to the outside of the walls before it eventually wicked into the interior.

I'm looking at this as an opportunity to make the interior however I want it, since it is basically turning into an entire interior remodel/refinish.  I'm just glad I've got some experience at that kind of work (just not in an RV).

For now I'm keeping the A/C units running to help pull the moisture out of the interior.  It's not cheap running both of them as well as the two inside the apartment, but that's the part of the cost of fixing it right.

jim
[edit]pink foam, not white styrofoam.  I could only see the edge of the foam at first, and it looked white, but I was wrong.[/edit]

 

[Ron]

Sounds like you got your work cut out for you.  Keep us posted on the progress.

 

[baadpuppy]

ok, scared up the pre-purchase pics for the before, and took as many pics as I could before the batteries died for the during.

pics are here

enjoy,
jim

 

[ArdraF]

Jim,

It didn't look too bad before - looks can be deceiving - but you sure have your work cut out for you now! 

Will enjoy following your progress.

when I get some batteries for the camera.  That thing eats them like mad.

Might I suggest getting rechargeable batteries for that thing?  You're going to be taking a lot of photos and they should help bring down the cost.  ;D

ArdraF

 

[baadpuppy]

Jim,

It didn't look too bad before - looks can be deceiving - but you sure have your work cut out for you now! 

Will enjoy following your progress.

Might I suggest getting rechargeable batteries for that thing?  You're going to be taking a lot of photos and they should help bring down the cost.  ;D

ArdraF

You're right, it didn't look too bad before.  And I definitely have my work cut out for me.

Managed to finish taking the wall down on the starboard side from ceiling to just under the passenger seat window or lower and all the way back to the door.  Also, the areas that were exposed are already drying out.  Maybe it'll only take a few days.

As for the batteries... good suggestion. 

Anyway, I know I'll get a good workout with all this work.  That can't help but be a good thing... I think.

jim

 

[Ron from Big D]

Don't you think it would have made sense to remove the upholstered furniture first?  It would protect them, plus give you more working room.

 

[baadpuppy]

Don't you think it would have made sense to remove the upholstered furniture first?  It would protect them, plus give you more working room.

Yep, I agree.  I don't care about protecting them as they're fairly ratty after a single camping trip.  But I do need the working room.  Now I just have to figure out how they come out.  ;D

jim

 

[baadpuppy]

I'm not sure this is the right place to continue this, but here goes...

Cleaned up yesterday's mess.  It's nice having an old pickup truck to dump the junk into.  Also removed the starboard captain's chair and the two smaller (half-barrel?) chairs from the "dining" region.  I also removed the flip-up table (boy was that a pain).  Surprisingly, the carpet underneath the wall part of the flip-up table was BLUE.    The carpet looked like a really dirty tan everywhere else.  I never would've guessed it was once blue.  I'm thinking now that most of the other grey and blue/grey stuff used to be blue too.

I also ripped up some of the carpet.  Whew, what a stink.  I need to get a good carpet knife, and something to grab carpet and pull hard with, as well as some dust masks.  I'll do that during my lunch break tomorrow.

Already the exposed bits of wall are now dry.  That side gets the morning sun, so I think the moisture gets baked out and then pulled out of the air with the A/C unit.  I didn't leave all that much wood there anyway.  Still have to rip out the lower half of that wall.

I've found a few places where screws completely missed the metal struts during initial assembly.  The wood around those screws was especially rotted, as well as soaking wet.  I'm not sure yet how I'll solve the problem.  On the outside there is the seam where the side meets the end cap.  It has an aluminum channel screwed down over the overlapping pieces into the inside aluminum strut, and then some kind of vinyl strip over the aluminum channel.  Only they missed the inside aluminum with a few of the screws.  Also, the vinyl has aged and cracked and shrunk, etc.  Wondering if I should replace the vinyl, or just slap eternabond over it and live with it.

As for the ceiling/roof assembly, I've decided to leave it alone.  Having exposed the forward edge, I'm hoping the moisture will wick out with help from the A/C unit while I'm doing all the other work.  I might have to add an additional cover to hide the ugly stains, but hopefully not.  Trying to separate all those glued layers with the glue still holding strong just isn't a level of work I want to tackle.  Especially as it would imply completely gutting the interior.  I think the cost in terms of time, money, and labor just isn't worth it.

well, enough for now.  Hope I haven't bored y'all too much.  ;D
jim

edit:
I just took 3 new pictures before the second set of batteries (used ones) died.  Put them in the same place.  In the one named 100_0738.jpg, you can see the carpet pad has one spot that wasn't faded.  The carpet just above it was the part that was blue instead of that off-white looking color.  Unfortunately, the carpet is in the trash and the batteries are dead, so no pic of that.

 

[baadpuppy]

Forum staff... I think this has turned into a journal/log... should it be moved to that section?

well, haven't updated this story much.

Where to begin...

First, some of the actual initial assembly led to there being leaks from day 1.  This could've been corrected if it had ever been caught.  Looking at the roof, I think there were either 4 or 5 attempts to stop it from leaking... only the leaks were actually in the walls.  My maintenance archeology might be incorrect though.

Secondly, this motorhome seemed to have spent a lot of time in the northeast... and appears to have been used extensively in the wintertime (including actual travel time).  Unfortunately, the frame (chassis and coach floor beams) were coated with salt spray, and there is extensive corrosion and rusting.  Some of the aluminum in the walls is corroded all the way to the ceiling and down under the floor.

Where the sides met the bottom section of the sides (approximately floor level) the vinyl over metal seals weren't installed as well as they could've been, and appear to have not been maintained.  On an 18 yr old motorhome, the vinyl has pulled away and allowed water in.  The entire lower area walls are completely delaminated.

The flooring appears to actually be solid and dry so far.  I'm very pleased with that so far.  Still working from front to back and it is slow going.

While flushing the black tank one day (backflushing) I did another task while waiting for the tank to fill and got sidetracked.  My advice: don't do this!  Instead of flooding the motorhome like someone else recently experienced, it simply started leaking at the outlet port on the black tank.  Fortunately, I'm fairly sure it was as clean is it is likely to get.  Unfortunately, it's looking like the tank will need to come off.  Since the water closet is uncomfortably small for me, I had intended to make a change to it anyway.  Maybe now it will be easier... heh.

The ceiling did have some leaks.  Some of them I suspect were caused by attempts to fix leaks.  Between goopy aluminum sealant and black tar and silicone caulk and paint on sealant (kool coat I think), there's no way to know.  So, many ceiling sections are in dire need of repair.

The frame is still solid.  The fiberglass is unbroken.  The floor is solid.  The engine and driveline are strong.  The mattress is fairly new and comfortable.  All the appliances work correctly.  Most of the wiring is still in good shape.  The genset runs mostly, just needs maintenance.  The refer is in awesome shape.  All the tires are new now.  The suspension is in good shape.  All in all, things could be much worse.

At this point I'm in the process of doing 2 things.  First, I'm trying to do a cheap shelter.  I've found some 10x20 shelters that look like they'll hold up for about $150 via lowes.com (local store pickup).  Once I drain the tanks and winterize, I plan to move the motorhome to a sheltered location and put those shelters up around it.  I'm thinking of putting the poles on top of cinder blocks as a sort of false "foundation" all around the motorhome.  Then I'll put tarps around it all to keep things as "tight" as I can.  Haven't figured out a door system yet, but something will come to me.  The important things are to keep out as much moisture and wind as possible and be as inexpensive as possible.  I have a propane based garage heater I can use while I work in there.

Second, I'm basically going to strip the entire interior.  Every cabinet and appliance will come out.  Every wall will come down.  The dash will be removed (not the instrument panel if I don't have to, just the box)  I haven't finished cleaning out the shed to store it all in yet, but that is planned for this weekend.  All the interior wiring and plumbing will be exposed.  If need be, I'll put in temporary braces to help the walls stay as solid as needed.  I'm not planning to remove the exterior skin.  The windows on the other hand will have to come out at some point so that the walls can be reassembled.

After the interior is gutted, I plan to pull up the floor and tackle the corrosion everywhere.  I know I won't be able to get it all, but I intend to try.

It's also possible I might be forced to even remove the skin, or at least peel it back in places.  I hope to avoid that, as it just won't be easy to do.

I also want to avoid removing ceiling panels, but it might prove necessary.

All in all, I don't expect to be finished before may.  So much for QZ this year.  I hate thinking how badly my budget will be hit by the time I'm done.

On the bright side, when I finish I'll know every inch of the beast, and it will be as close to perfect (for me) as it is possible to be on that chassis.

I've gotten tired of typing, so I'll end this here.  Hope y'all enjoy reading it.  And before you feel sorry for me, I'm kind of enjoying this.  Once I got over the disappointment of having so much rot inside anyway.

jim

 

[KodiakRV]

...I've gotten tired of typing, so I'll end this here.  Hope y'all enjoy reading it...

Whew!  I get tired just READING your posts. 

I DO enjoy reading them, however.  Thanks!!!

 

[Ray D]

At this point I'm in the process of doing 2 things.  First, I'm trying to do a cheap shelter.  I've found some 10x20 shelters that look like they'll hold up for about $150 via lowes.com (local store pickup).

Baadpuppy, first of all, I am really enjoying your account. I feel like I ought to help pay part of the cost, for entertainment value. (I will control that feeling!)

Maybe, I can help, a little. Your $150 cost from Lowes, looks really good, to me. For the cover, consider contractor grade and size Visqueen. I know it used to come in 20 ft widths and 100 ft length, rolls. It is not expensive, and it allows sunlight in. It's translucent. That means good lighting for your work and solar heat for the interior.

Some years ago, I had a water garden, 50 ft long and 30 ft wide. I built a cover over it, each winter, to keep it running, so the fish and tropical flowers wouldn't die. It worked far better than I anaticipated. The first winter, 1991, it got down to 21 below zero and didn't get above zero for three weeks, in January. Inside my contraption, it was balmy warm. It was amazing! I and my wife would sit in there, snow and freezing weather, outside, in our shirt sleeves, comfrotable, on top of the world. It wasn't winter, for us! Worked for many years! (Later years, I put a patio table and chairs in there. Outlandiish!)

I used 6 mil Visqueen to cover the thing. I supported it with PVC pipe. I think your metal shelter skeleton is better, but you could augment with PVC, if needed. I used sisal twine and duct tape, to attach the plastic cover and to lash the pipe, as necessary, for additional rigidity. I went through two installations of Visqueen, per winter. A couple of times, wind storms blew it off, but I had new Visqueen ready to go, and recovered it. One set of pipes lasted until I sold the property - I think that was seven winters.

Oh, yeah. I kept the snow off with a push broom and a makeshift, PVC extension. OK, so some snowy days, I pushed the broom just about all day.

Sorry, I can't help myself. Decided to grow a couple of tomato plants in there. (Moved a couple of plants from the garden, before the first frost.) With fresh snow on the ground, had fresh, home grown tomatoes for Christmas dinner, two years in a row, just before I sold it! I had no heat in there other than the sun! From 91 to 98, never got frost in there.

Neighbors called it "Ray's White Whale." Didn't have a problem nor any complaints from them, as they were welcome inside, and seemed to enjoy it. Welcome relief from winter doldrums.

Yours, if you can use it. (Would like to see a photo of whatever you decide to use.)

Ray D  ;D

Consider growing tomatoes, in there, if you decide to go with the translucent cover. It's a kick in the pants, right at the time of year, when it helps!!

 

[baadpuppy]

Whew!  I get tired just READING your posts. 

I DO enjoy reading them, however.  Thanks!!!

Generally speaking I try to keep things short sweet and to the point.  Unfortunately, this type of thread leads to long and sometimes rambling posts.

I actually write lots of replies in lots of threads here but only end up posting about 1 in 15 or so.  Primarily because I tend to get off topic or not be 100% sure of some facts.

I've been worried (especially in this thread) that I was rambling too much and boring everyone.  I'm glad to hear that at least a few of y'all are enjoying them and/or getting useful information.  I'll keep updating this thread to keep things up to date as changes happen.  Thanks to you and Ray D for the encouragement. 

Last night I had another thought for how to store the RV for the winter.  I need to check with my parents, but if they'll let me do this it'll be a lot better than I originally planned.  Don't ya just love the teaser?  lol  ;D

I really like Ray's idea of combining the work shelter with a greenhouse type setup.  I'll run that by my parents as well.

jim

 

[kafansler]

Just a thought you may want to run a dehumidifier in the MH especially when you are not working, it will assist in removing moisture faster than an AC unit will.  When working just turn it off and remove it.  That will keep it from getting full of dust...

Just a thought.

Good luck and I will too keep reading.

Kyle

 

[baadpuppy]

well, the idea I had got shot down.

If you look at this picture you can see 2 buildings, a large garage+apartment built on a concrete slab to the right and a wooden non-permanent structure to the left.  There is a nissan pathfinder parked there and an aluminum carport.

Long term plans are to remove everything from that area and build a pole barn there.  The aluminum carport would get moved over to the pool deck (an area that hasn't been built yet) for shade.  I was thinking that perhaps we could dismantle the carport and start the pole barn early.  So tonight dad and I took a look, and that idea just won't work.  The opening is a little less than 14' wide and wouldn't leave much room to work on the sides of the motorhome.  Also, half the motorhome would be sticking out into the yard/driveway/parking area and would really be in the way.

So we talked about connecting two 10x20 shelters together, but 10' wide just isn't enough either.  So remembering that there was a 18x20 option as well, I started doing more looking.  And I found this 18'Wx40'Lx11'H shelter built with a 2" steel frame and a "commercial grade" cover.  It also has a side kit.  Look like the entire unit shipped to my door will run a little under $700 + tax and less than $200 shipping, although there's a northern tools store about 90 minutes from here and I might be able to get it cheaper that way.  Hrm... round trip fare for the bay bridge tunnel is $24, gas would be about $45, lunch another $10... cheaper than freight.  Plus there's the fun of browsing a northern tools store... priceless.  ;D

The height has me a little concerned, but dad and I think we can put some kind of temporary foundation like system underneath the poles to raise the height.  It would also help strengthen the sides I think.  And even if the covering wears out over the winter the frame will be good and I can put something else over it.

In any case, I have to wait a couple of weeks (budgetary reasons) to buy this.  So I guess I need to focus on making room for RV interior parts in one of the storage sheds.  Time to break out the gloves and trash bags.  lol.

I doubt there'll be any updates here for a little while.

Oh, and I agree kafansler about the dehumidifier.  I've actually shut off the A/C unit since I've got an opening to the outside via the floor.  It isn't large, but large enough I don't want to pay to cool the outdoors.  But for any future need for humidity removal it might just be worth dragging the dehumidifier up from the cellar.

jim

 

[Ray D]

You might see if they would cut the legs to 12 ft, instead of 10 ft. That is, assuming that's tall enough for your motorhome.

Ray D  ;D

 

[baadpuppy]

This weekend I moved the motorhome to a spot where a 18'x40' enclosure won't interfere with normal parking in the yard so much.  That of course meant moving away from the full hookup spot in the yard.  So I drained the tanks and now only have 15A feeding the motorhome.  No A/C for me!

Oh, and the grass in the other spot can start growing back now.  ;D

I also removed the jacknife sofa today, and pulled out the port side overhead cabinet in the living room as well as the surface of the wall on that side all the way from the edge of the galley to the front of the vehicle, except the bits covered by floor/dash/etc.

Under the jacknife sofa you can see the original blue carpet color.  Really not a bad color.  You can also see the original panelling color as well.

For those that like pics, here ya go:
relocated motorhome
during remodelling -- part 03

Under the jacknife sofa there is also a large metal box extending up from beneath the vehicle.  That is one of the under vehicle storage bays.  It looks like I'll have to figure out how to drop it so I can finish the work.  I'm not looking forward to that.

I also still need to remove the dash.  I'm kinda holding off on that until I have a good place to store it.  The driver's seat also needs to be removed.

Next on the removal list is the galley excepting the refer.  I've cut off the gas in the rig and burned off what was in the tubes.  Everything in the galley on the port side is coming out.  I'm hoping to sell the old range/oven combo (perhaps on ebay) and the old microwave so that I can but a combo oven/microwave oven and standalone range to replace them.  The range I buy will have to have electric start.  Also, I don't like the existing sink and I hope to get something a little deeper and perhaps stainless steel.  But purchasing for the galley can wait till the rebuild/reassembly part starts.

Tomorrow Mom and I are going through one of the storage buildings sorting and reorganizing things.  Hopefully as much as 50% of the junk in there can be hauled off, leaving room for storage of RV parts.  My parents are being extremely supportive and helpful in this project. 

Once the storage situation is squared away, I can pull out all the bits that are filling the rear of the motorhome right now and put them in the storage building.  That will give me a LOT more room to work inside the rig.

The mattress will end up going on my own bed during the remodel process.  It's a good mattress, better than the one I'm using inside right now.  ;D

Not too much else new at this point.

Ray D, I'm seriously considering using 2-3 foot long pieces of pipe to extend the height as necessary on the shelter.  But first I have to get the shelter and see how tight things will be.  18'x40' is gonna be huuuuuge.  Unfortunately, I think getting the supplier to do that for me would increase the cost to the ridiculous.  We're used to doing a bit of fudging and engineering to get things to work the way we need them to, and I'm sure I'll manage with this as well.

Oh, and anyone feeling the desire to donate to the project....  ;D  (That's just a joke for those that didn't pick up on it.)

ok, enough babbling.

jim

 

[baadpuppy]

Today mom, dad, and I reorganized and cleaned up one of the storage buildings.  We also ran an extension cord in there so we also have lights. 

Hauled more junk off to the dump.  The interior of the motorhome is starting to look quite bleak.

Dad and I removed the refer.  Whew, took two of us to lift.  It's a fairly large norcold unit, although it might be considered a medium size these days.

I've removed most of the shell around the refer area.  Switches are dangling, wires are hanging everywhere... it's a mess.  lol.  Gotta get more batteries tomorrow. (*)

I've left the frame of the refer cabinet alone until I can get some precise measurements, since the refer will have to go back exactly where it was before.

Most of the dismantled interior is now in the storage shed.  There's still more to move.  Tomorrow I plan to get some storage totes for several of the miscellaneous things to be kept safe in.  Gotta empty all the drawers and cabinets.  I thought it had been done, but I've learned otherwise.

I'm hopeful that I can dismantle the remainder of the galley tomorrow.

Can't wait to order the enclosure.  Some shade would be nice.  I can't believe it was 86 degrees in october.    Pretty much all weekend too.

Ah well, better than freezing I suppose.

jim

oops, forgot:  (*)  batteries for the camera... seems the internal clock is what eats the batteries so much.

 

[scottydl]

oops, forgot:  (*)  batteries for the camera... seems the internal clock is what eats the batteries so much.

$10-15 will buy you a couple AA rechargeable batteries and a charger.  The batteries are good for something like 1000 charges.  Best investment I ever made for use in digital cameras and high-drain toys.