toad braking system's

[BernieD]

I don't think I would take the word of one CHP officer.  Best to check else where too like the DMV and if possible get it in writting.

Ron

I have no need to get it in writing, I wouldn't pull a toad without supplemental brakes. But this is a subject that repeats every so often and I happened to have access to this CHiP officer, who was at the rally as an instructor and trainer in CA over the road rules. IMO, his response was adequate; no hesitation or equivocation. He knew the subject and the answer.

 

[Ron]

Ron

I have no need to get it in writing, I wouldn't pull a toad without supplemental brakes. But this is a subject that repeats every so often and I happened to have access to this CHiP officer, who was at the rally as an instructor and trainer in CA over the road rules. IMO, his response was adequate; no hesitation or equivocation. He knew the subject and the answer.

Nor would we pull a toad without supplemental braking.  Wonder if Carl has any information concerning this subject?

 

[Jeff]

Our M&G has worked flawlessly for 5 years in December.

 

[tweak]

OK , your point is well taken however,
Not I nor any one of you would think twice about hooking up the old utility trailer for a trip to the local dump. Mine weighs about 400 lbs empty and after filling it with full trash bags goes about 550 or 600 pounds. The trailer is quite small, a little over 8 feet long and around 5.5 feet wide. I tow with a 96 Jeep that weighs 3,600 pounds and by now you Shirley know where I am going with this. If anyone were to suggest that I install utility brakes on this trailer that weighs about 17% of the Jeep, for a trip to the dump would get me wondering what they had been smoking. Could I stop faster with brakes on the trailer, sure I could!!! Have I ever saw a trailer this small with brakes
NO! Look at it another way, I can put 3 200 pound people in the jeep and how am I gonna put brakes on them? And another way, the trailer empty is the same percentage weight as the Yaris behind my MH. Now I ask you all, would you tow an empty 400 pound trailer behind a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee without trailer brakes????? Tell the truth !! And if you would then why would you insist on Aux brakes on a Yaris behind a 17,000 pound MH?? and not on the 400 pound utility trailer? Would it be safer, sure it would,just like it would be safer with brakes on the utility trailer.

 

[KodiakRV]

Here's a difference --
If your utility trailer breaks away, it will probably grind to a stop with its nose down pretty quickly and with a modest amount of damage.

If your Yaris breaks away, it will roll until it hits something at full speed and may be totaled.  If it veers into oncoming traffic and hits another vehicle head-on, your Yaris is not only totalled, but you are liable for the damage/injury/death that you cause others.

Auxiliary brakes could bring the Yaris to a relatively safe stop in a breakaway situation.

 

[Alaskansnowbirds]

........And if you would then why would you insist on Aux brakes on a Yaris behind a 17,000 pound MH?? and not on the 400 pound utility trailer? Would it be safer, sure it would,just like it would be safer with brakes on the utility trailer.

Because it's the LAW in some states and I never know which states I'll be in.

That 400 pound utility trailer will probably never leave the state where you live. And you'll have it equipped with what ever it takes to make it legal in the state you live.

 

[Ron]

Because it's the LAW in some states and I never know which states I'll be in.

That 400 pound utility trailer will probably never leave the state where you live. And you'll have it equipped with what ever it takes to make it legal in the state you live.

Right on Don.  That 400 - 600 pund trailer while could cause considerable damage or injuries it would never do the damage a 4000+ Jeep Cherokke would do if it beacme disconected and run loose.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I suspect that  Jeep is not loaded anywhere near its GVWR (which is what the brakes are rated to stop), whereas a motorhome is usually quite close to its GVWR and near the limits of its braking.  And the motorhome already has a much longer stopping distance than the Jeep, so anything that increases the stopping distance by 10-15% can really hurt.

But I don't think we are going to convince Tweak.    And he is right to some extent - the heavier the motorhome, the less effect the weight of the toad has, especially a light one. I've got a 4700 lb toad behind our 33,000 lb rig, so by Tweak's percentage rule, I don't "need" a toad brake either. But don't worry - I've got a good one.

 

[Ron]

Frankly speaking I just do not think it is an intelligent thing to do towing even a 2000 lb load behind a MH without axillary brakes on the toad.  Our MH GVWR is 32,000 lbs and this is what the brakes are designed to stop in the required distance.  The GCVWR is 42,000lbs and like all motorhomes that I am aware of the MH brakes are not designed to stop any part of that extra 10,000 lbs.  While some states have not yet woke up to the fact that what ever is being towed behind a MH is not included in the brake design for stopping the MH I feel it is just plain wise to have auxiliary brakes whether required by law or not.

The liability issues one would be exposed to should a accident occur could very well end RV as well as a lot of other activities if towing without axillary brakes.

 

[John From Detroit]

I support Ron on this.. You run into me and I find your towed did not have it's  brakes in operation.. I don't really care if they woudl have made a differnce or not. you are gonna have to hock the family jewels to pay the settlement I'm gonna ask for.

 

[Mike (ex-f-221)]

Tweak,

... some states may have requirements for an auxiliary braking system if the toad is over 1500lbs.

Jim, here is a list that might give an answer

 

[maanpaoregon]

After asking a lot of question on toad brakes, we purchased the Brake Buddy. Received some great advise  on setting it up. Followed the instruction and advise, have been very satisfied with the unit. It come in it's own storage case and storage is no problem. This system we use on our Rubicon.

 

[Jim Dick]

I think Wendy has the best answer-it's the law. Tell me what insurance company is going to stand behind their customer when that person did not do all they could to meet the requirements of the law. Even though the auxiliary brakes are not required in all states I'd hate to have an accident in one that did require them and lose everything because my insurance company abandoned me!!

 

[Jeff]

Jim:

Most liability policies are not invalidated by failing to meet highway vehicle laws. Would you like your policy to not cover you if you ran a red light or were speeding  and had an accident? The terms of our policy define what is covered and not covered but no mention is made of towed vehicle braking.

Please do not misunderstand my feelings on toad brakes, we have them and think it is DUMB not to.

 

[Ron]

While that may be true liability expossure could very well being much more than what the policy covers.  Especially if there is a permanent injury or death.

 

[Alaskansnowbirds]

Just because you have insurance coverage doesn't mean the insurance company will pay. They will look for any loop hole to get out of paying a claim. My brother had to sue his insurance company to get them to pay a claim. As usual the lawyers got most of it so he wound up on the short end of the stick.

 

[Ron]

Just because you have insurance coverage doesn't mean the insurance company will pay. They will look for any loop hole to get out of paying a claim. My brother had to sue his insurance company to get them to pay a claim. As usual the lawyers got most of it so he wound up on the short end of the stick.

Any time the lawyers get involved the ONLY ones that come out on top is the Lawyers.

 

[tweak]

Looks like I got a good conversation going here! Are we talking about the toad applying its breakers in the event of a breakaway or are we talking about the toad helping to stop its own weight? From some of the MH weights I have seen quoted here, you guys need all the help you can get in stooping those rigs toad or no toad, my god man, 33,000 pounds. Thats twice what the 34' Winne weighs

 

[Ron]

Our previous MH GVWR was 23000 LBS and we still had auxiliary braking.  Auxiliary braking provides braking for the additional weight of the toad as well as can provide breakaway braking which is also required by many states.  IMHO it would be just plain stupid to expect just the motorhome brakes to be able to stop a MH and toad without increasing the stopping distance.  Whether it is required by law or not in the state one is driving IMHO in ones own interest in their safety should dictate the need for auxiliary braking when pulling a toad.  Not to have auxiliary braking is --- well IMHO just not a wise choice.

 

[Tom]

Are we talking about the toad applying its breakers in the event of a breakaway or are we talking about the toad helping to stop its own weight?

Yes and yes. Check the illustrated article in our forum library on Auxiliary (toad) braking systems which includes some discussion of both braking functions.