Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Same for the GMC Acadia we towed for several years. GM originally understated what fuses needed to be pulled (or switched off) but they eventually figured it out.
Toad braking
- Thread starter ocexpress
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
phil-t
Well-known member
Our Buick Envision has two fuses that need to be pulled for towing. I installed a pair fuse socket extenders and a double pole on/off switch to disconnect/reconnect those two fuses. EZ/PZ!
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
Just so I understand the gist of this thread, and I'm always up for learning new tech stuff, and personally having towed a number of vehicles on a trailer - all 4 wheels off the ground - why can't a person just disconnect the battery? I'm assuming we're talking about towing a small vehicle behind a large, heavy MH so why would the toad need it's own braking system? I mean, especially if the toad weighs less than 50% of the MH...which it more than likely does.
Isaac-1
Well-known member
One issue is that the law in most states require that any "trailer" over 2,500 pounds (some states higher, some lower) must have a break away braking system, and in this case a car being towed 4 down is considered a trailer, these are usually electrically powered, though some of the systems out there use springs, air, etc. to apply breaking.
The second thing is we are not always talking a huge weight difference, take a 14,500 GVWR class C towing a 5,000 pound jeep as an example.
The second thing is we are not always talking a huge weight difference, take a 14,500 GVWR class C towing a 5,000 pound jeep as an example.
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
A 14,500# MH towing a 5000# Jeep is a HUGE weight difference. It would be akin to my 6000# RAM towing a 2000# bass boat. I wouldn't give it a first thought...no brakes necessary.
Skookum
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2018
- Posts
- 3,633
Isaac-1
Well-known member
Correction, it looks like 3,000 pounds and over requiring brakes is the most common requirement, though about 7 States require trailer brakes for trailers 2,000 pounds and less, which account for almost all modern cars (the only car mass produced in the last 20 years under 2,000 pounds is the Smart Fortwo), these states include, CA, NV, ID, OH, MS, NC, NY, and TN
Henry J Fate
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2018
- Posts
- 2,292
towing without brakes on the toad is fine until the brakes are needed.
lets say its raining and you are on a clover leaf on ramp to a highway and suddenly need to panic stop. with no brakes on the trailer / toad, 5000lbs pushing on the hitch makes a good case for a jack knife or other consequences.
thats one example. there are many other instances where trailer brakes become very important.
couple years ago i jump started a friends car. while connecting the jumper cables to his battery, i noticed that the battery was not clamped down and the insulating cap for the pos terminal was gone. so i mentioned it to him. got the " dont need that. everything is fine. no use for that. battery not going anywhere." so i thought that maybe he was right but then thought if somehow he flipped the car over in a ditch and could not get out, could that battery be a risk ?
lets say its raining and you are on a clover leaf on ramp to a highway and suddenly need to panic stop. with no brakes on the trailer / toad, 5000lbs pushing on the hitch makes a good case for a jack knife or other consequences.
thats one example. there are many other instances where trailer brakes become very important.
couple years ago i jump started a friends car. while connecting the jumper cables to his battery, i noticed that the battery was not clamped down and the insulating cap for the pos terminal was gone. so i mentioned it to him. got the " dont need that. everything is fine. no use for that. battery not going anywhere." so i thought that maybe he was right but then thought if somehow he flipped the car over in a ditch and could not get out, could that battery be a risk ?
Last edited:
Laura & Charles
Well-known member
I don’t understand the weight difference argument. The weight difference between Rosie and her toad is is about as extreme as it gets. Together, they clock in at almost 50,000 lbs. When I need to stop, I want every wheel on the ground helping me do that. And, as Henry points out, staying in a straight line is always a good idea.
But beyond what’s needed and safe, any argument for not having toad brakes is an argument for ‘braking’ the law.
But beyond what’s needed and safe, any argument for not having toad brakes is an argument for ‘braking’ the law.
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
The law notwithstanding, of course. 
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
My example above was only a comparison to the huge weight difference between a 15,000# MH and a 4000# car. I would certainly have brakes for the toad. I don't however, have brakes for my bass boat. I couldn't load enough gear in it to give the rig a 3000# GVWR.I don’t understand the weight difference argument. The weight difference between Rosie and her toad is is about as extreme as it gets. Together, they clock in at almost 50,000 lbs. When I need to stop, I want every wheel on the ground helping me do that. And, as Henry points out, staying in a straight line is always a good idea.
But beyond what’s needed and safe, any argument for not having toad brakes is an argument for ‘braking’ the law.
Last edited:
Fyrflie
Well-known member
Tulecreeper
Well-known member
I'm surprised that NV has such a low weight limit. There being pretty much nothing to run into - other than antelope - throughout 90% of the state.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Disconnect the battery: That is usually effective but may have unwanted side effects, e.g. loss of memory for things like radio presets and seat positions. Furthermore, in the newest vehicle it may inhibit special towing modes or features in the vehicle computers, e.g. electronic steering assists, AWD, or whatever. And of course, that assumes no braking unit that may require 12vpower (but you could hardwire an outlet for that).
Why toad braking: Besides the legal question others cited, There are two physical reasons:
- The tow vehicle brakes are universally designed to adequately stop the GVWR weight, not the combined weight of tow vehicle and toad. Most motorhome chassis will specifically state that any additional weight above the GVWR MUST have its own braking
- Additional braking for the toad weight will always shorten the stopping distance. That's simple physics, a law that cannot be avoided. Shorter stopping sistance may not be important as long as there is adequate time and distance, but when the inevitable occurs and you come up 20 or 50 ft short of what is needed, you will wish you had those toad brakes. Some idiot pulls out in front of you, or an accident ahead requires a panic stop.
Skookum
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2018
- Posts
- 3,633
I'd be curious how common NOT having brakes on a toad is, in the motorhome community. Are most people pretty vigilant about it, or is there a fairly large cohort running around taking an outsized risk?
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Newbies always question the need for toad brakes and get beaten up by people like me. They usually acquiesce in public, but some of them probably ignore the advice. I personally know of a few, including a nephew.
Isaac-1
Well-known member
They do have some significant mountains and other terrain though
jymbee
Well-known member
That's a good point I had not considered. Even if the coach has more than sufficient stopping power, absent any braking on the toad the inertia could jackknife as you say.
Old_Crow
Well-known member
When I was towing 4 down, I poo-poo'ed advice about braking systems for years. Towed 2 different Wranglers with 2 different motor homes for around 7 years.Newbies always question the need for toad brakes and get beaten up by people like me. They usually acquiesce in public, but some of them probably ignore the advice. I personally know of a few, including a nephew.
Then I got a deal I couldn't pass up on a braking system. The first trip out, that braking system made a difference in one of the situations you mentioned earlier (idiot cut in front of me). Now I am a firm believer in brake systems in the toad.
I now tow on a trailer. I learn slowly, but I learn. I had the brake controller installed in the coach before I even took delivery of the trailer, and don't regret it for a second. Saved me once already on the first trip when an accident happened in front of me on I-40 and traffic came to an abrupt stop.
It's way easier to type all this than to look at pictures of a wrecked RV and say, "Wow, I should have hooked up the brakes."
phil-t
Well-known member
Had a friend loose his Chevy 1500 PU, in tow, behind his Class A. Towbar failed in some way. The breakaway system on the PU worked and he returned to find his truck "parked" safely on the shoulder of the interstate. I think maybe he did not have all the safety parts of the tow in use at the time but the brake system saved his truck, and maybe a big accident on the highway.
I have always had a brake system installed on my toad. This spring, on our return trip from SC to NY that brake system was malfunctioning. I proceded, with caution, and made it home without incident. I could certainly tell, feel, the difference in braking with that 4200 lb. tow behind me and my 26k+ Class A.
The problem has since been found and resolved.
I have always had a brake system installed on my toad. This spring, on our return trip from SC to NY that brake system was malfunctioning. I proceded, with caution, and made it home without incident. I could certainly tell, feel, the difference in braking with that 4200 lb. tow behind me and my 26k+ Class A.
The problem has since been found and resolved.
