Walmart sued over parking lot fire death.

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Generally if a Wal-Mart has "No camping" sign it's the result of local, or state laws where the campground owner's association has convinced the legislators of the "Dangers" of allowing overnighting (They lose a bit of profit that's the danger). This is aided by the occasional criminal who does something stupid like dump the waste in the storm sewer.
In a town where we live, both Walmarts have signs forbidding overnight parking in their lots. The town also has a "No camping" signs on many of its streets. There is only one RV campground within 20 miles, and that is at the County Fairgrounds, which imposes a 14 day limit on overnight camping per calendar year.

So, there are no campground owners in town getting rich because people are not allowed to park overnight at WalMart, or anywhere else in town.
 
These days if you can afford fuel you can afford to stay in a campground. Walmarts should only be used for emergency parking. I'll never understand some people's obsession of getting or using something for free just because it is free. Like during Covid people with brand new cars waiting in lines at food banks burning more dollars in gas than they received in free food
 
These days if you can afford fuel you can afford to stay in a campground. Walmarts should only be used for emergency parking. I'll never understand some people's obsession of getting or using something for free just because it is free.
You answered your own question because it is free. We’ve stayed at Walmarts many times over the last 9 years going back and forth to Fl. We typically stop around 5 PM, eat at one of the local establishments next to Walmart then hit the rack. We then usually leave at 3:00/4:00 AM to get on the road early. If I was in a campground, I would be upsetting a lot of people and rightfully so.
 
These days if you can afford fuel you can afford to stay in a campground. Walmarts should only be used for emergency parking. I'll never understand some people's obsession of getting or using something for free just because it is free. Like during Covid people with brand new cars waiting in lines at food banks burning more dollars in gas than they received in free food
Walmart or any other "free" spot is just a place to pull over and catch some 'Z's when you're just passing through, and have no need of any campground amenities for the night.
We have stayed at a Walmart a few times. Usually in small towns we are passing through.
We have spent the night in a couple of Sam's Clubs, an occasional Cabela's, a few Publix, Wynn Dixie, or King Soopers/Krogers, and at the local Mall. Cracker Barrel is our favorite, because they have Breakfast. But a lot of times we prefer to just stop at a highway rest stop.
 
We overnight in parking lots (I refuse to call it “camping” or “boondocking”) because it is handy. We have plenty of money, but I didn’t get it by not evaluating value either. We have a Class A fully self-contained for 7-9 days - water, waste, power. Why should I stay in a $40-$60/night campground that gives me no value except a parking place? I don’t need water or waste disposal, laundry, showers, or a playground. I stay in campgrounds when I need parking for more than overnight, when it is hot and I need electricity for the AC (I don’t like bothering others with my generator noise), or for waste disposal. Now if someone provided a safe spot for overnights with at most electricity for $15-$20, I would use that! Until that happens, I will occasionally stay overnight in parking lots when it is convenient to my travels.
 
So, there are no campground owners in town getting rich because people are not allowed to park overnight at WalMart, or anywhere else in town.
I was too generic with "local"
The ordance/law can be city/township or Village
it can be county wide
or State wide.. i think NE is statewide (not sure)
Now this info is for "Rest areas" but it may well apply to Wal Marts in SOME CASES
(Or Flying J's)

Which States Do Not Allow RV Overnight Parking in Rest Stops?
  • Colorado.
  • Hawaii1
  • Maryland2
  • Nebraska.
  • North Carolina.
  • South Carolina.
  • Tennessee3
  • Virginia.
 
Now if someone provided a safe spot for overnights with at most electricity for $15-$20, I would use that!
At the time of the 1960's Olympics in Southern California, the state put in 'overnight' lots at state parks up and down the state. They weren't much more than a gravel lot allowing parallel dry camping. Long after the Olympics they rented the "Olympic sites" out for $5/night. In the mid '80s we towed a boat behind a class A, launched at a state park, rented a slip in their marina for $5/night, and dry camped in one of the Olympic sites for a couple of nights. As a bonus, because we rented the slip, they waived the $5 on the dry camping.

We did this so often that the rangers recognized our rig as we turned in off the highway, and had our check-in done by the time we reached the entrance.
 
I was too generic with "local"
The ordance/law can be city/township or Village
it can be county wide
or State wide.. i think NE is statewide (not sure)
Now this info is for "Rest areas" but it may well apply to Wal Marts in SOME CASES
(Or Flying J's)

Which States Do Not Allow RV Overnight Parking in Rest Stops?
  • Colorado.
  • Hawaii1
  • Maryland2
  • Nebraska.
  • North Carolina.
  • South Carolina.
  • Tennessee3
  • Virginia.
I did not verify all of them, but most of those states seem able to differentiate between camping and parking. If you pull up and park normally, and go to sleep. chances are you can remain there long enough to get a good night's sleep.
We have spent a good 6-8 hours in rest areas in all the states you listed, with the exception of Hawaii.
We never break out the camping gear, of course. I think that might be pushing one's luck.

We have parked in a mall or shopping center parking lot, and had mall security come to advise that we should move on by sunrise.
The only place that we were asked to leave was a shopping center on the south side of Santa Fe, NM
 
a lot of places have a time that defines "overnight" say (And folks this is JUST an example) 2 am.. So if you know the time and wake up 5 minutes before "T-Time" (T for Ticket) and drive around the lot for 10 minutes.. You good. The problem is this...2 am is only an EXAMPLE. not necessarly "T-Time" (Source. City of Battle Creek, Michigan parking laws).
 
Now if someone provided a safe spot for overnights with at most electricity for $15-$20, I would use that!
Not going to happen in todays litigious society. (Hence the title of this thread). By providing a place to park and plug in for a fee, the owner accepts a certain responsibility for it's users. And since most will not have the deep pockets that WM does, any profit disappears quickly the first time a problem occurs. It's much easier for a property owner to nail up a "No Trespassing" sign and be done with it.

I have tried "free" parking spots of all types in my 25 years of RVing, and rarely has it ever worked out. I will gladly pay a campground to have electricity, a designated spot where no one knocks on my door at 2 AM, and a safe place to walk the dog. But that is just me.

Different strokes for different folks.
 
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Sarge, the same could be said about a regular campground! A campground charge $40-$60 for a simple overnight to recover their quite significant build costs, maintenance costs, salaries, profit, and insurance. I would just like a place to park that doesn’t have all the expensive parts.
 
The AP article below is not similar to the WM case, except for the deep pockets of the corporation and a jury's willingness to reach into them when they feel the corporation should have done more. It is why many corporations settle cases rather than have them go to juries.

Unrelated to this article, but I once worked with someone who was fired. He had developed some software that saved the company millions of dollars over the years. He claimed that he owned it and that the company should have to pay him for it. It went to court. Ultimately, he lost his case but the company spent more than $3 million in legal fees fighting him for it when he would have accepted far less as compensation.

Again, settling is often in the company's financial interest rather than fighting it.

BTW - I will be surprised if the Ford verdict and award amount below stand upon appeal, but my guess is that Ford could have settled this for much less than they will have spent in legal fees.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2022/au...georgia-truck/

WOODSTOCK, Ga. — Ford Motor Co. plans to appeal a $1.7 billion verdict against the automaker after a pickup truck crash that claimed the lives of a Georgia couple, a company representative said Sunday.
 
If you want LOW COST (not free) there is a campground south of Frankenmuth MI. (Pine ridge or Pine grove or something like that, Pine Ridge, thank you Google Maps) They are very reasonable. You see they have their own oil well that pays them well.. (I'm serious, there's an oil well just behind the main office as I recall) Ok so there is a slight "oil well" aroma near the well but it does not penetrate into the most (if any) of the campsites.
And Frankenmuth (A major Tourist trap) is just a few miles north
Do all your Christmas shopping at the Christmas store.
 
Growing trend in USA. Everyone must pay the price because of one idiot. Sorry this happened, let's over react and outlaw vans in general. How far do we want to go. While we are at it we should outlaw leaving minors in cars while people shop, fix both ends of this equation.

Read between the lines, this person was "stealth" camping in the parking lot as evidenced by moving the van around to avoid detection.
 
Read between the lines, this person was "stealth" camping in the parking lot as evidenced by moving the van around to avoid detection
I was thinking that maybe he got caught using the stove on the parking premises (a big no-no) so he rushed and stored it in the van while still hot, and then moved the van closer to the store, with tragic consequences.
 
I was thinking that maybe he got caught using the stove on the parking premises (a big no-no) so he rushed and stored it in the van while still hot, and then moved the van closer to the store, with tragic consequences.
Doubt he got caught doing anything until the fire.

My guess stealth camped further out to get better sleep, ate breakfast, had to do some morning business, quickly stored stove and bedding, moved van closer to the store (because lazy), and the rest is history.
 
These days if you can afford fuel you can afford to stay in a campground. Walmarts should only be used for emergency parking. I'll never understand some people's obsession of getting or using something for free just because it is free. Like during Covid people with brand new cars waiting in lines at food banks burning more dollars in gas than they received in free food
I am going to have to guess that you never actually travel. Or, if you do you do not go far and long.
You probably also go into a restaurant and pay for the order only to leave it on the table. Why buy what I have no need of and do not want. All we need for an over night stop is some place flat. Quiet is nice.
Being able to afford to buy the fuel is a small part of the total value of the sum line. We were financially raped by the then administration and at my age, it is tough to replace 28 years worth of scrimping and saving for retirement. No body will hire a technical person as old as I.
You can go and pay a lot for things you feel like, but we choose to save that money.
Matt
 
Maybe. Often, large corporations will settle and not admit any liability with non-disclosure agreements required. If it costs them $5 million, that is still much less than a jury awarding $50 million because they feel sorry for the family. You never know what a jury will do in these cases, but often they award huge settlements.

Regardless, I would not be surprised to see them discontinue the practice just to limit liability and the hassle of dealing with claims like these. It would be an inconvenience for RVers and truckers, but probably wouldn't hurt their bottom line at all.
30 years ago business law professor told us that if we remembered nothing else from his class, we needed to remember that you never want to be the business in court against the grieving family. Facts won't matter, and you will lose. I suspect Walmart's lawyers will be thinking the same way.
 
Win, lose, or draw, seems like parking in big store's lots is coming to an end anyway. Lots of places passing laws to keep people from spending the night in their vehicles. Things like this just accelerate it.
 
We have the great fortune that the same people that are trying to end RVs en toto have very little understanding of our flexibility. These are the same people that want big transport trucks off the road and have lots of other demons to kill in an effort to return us to the bronze age. In the mean time, we will continue. If all the businesses that allow overnight parking cease to do so and federal highways start to enforce the 5 hour limit that some have, there are still other places to hide for a nights rest. If you don't need to extend slides to have full use, then "Stealth Camping" is very possible. There are lots of places that untended vehicles attract no attention.
Matt
 

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