Why did my cruise control stop working?!

[jymbee]

Couple days back we finally were able to resolve an issue where our Roadmaster cable connected to the tow vehicle had gone bad. Apparently some wires on the car end had somehow got crossed resulting in:


Multiple fuses were blow and it took quite a bit of sleuthing to figure it all out.

Immediately after that episode the cruise control stopped working so I suspect that somehow a fuse might be involved there as well. Also, levelers stopped working. Lights up, just a click, but no "action". Hopefully something as simple as fuses, or... ?

 

[Kirk]

It would be wise to check the fuses first, but if you don't find one return and post the make and model of the leveling system and we might be able to help.

 

[jymbee]

It would be wise to check the fuses first, but if you don't find one return and post the make and model of the leveling system and we might be able to help.

Ah, should have done that of course. We had an issue with the levelers a couple years back and I remember we had to order the part we needed from one tech and have it installed some days later a another location. But for the life of me I can't remember just what that part was.

 

[John From Detroit]

First thing to check when your Cruse Control Craps.

Your brake lights... Yup

The CC looks for 12 volts ACROSS the brake light switch
Fuse blown.. it's not there
All lamps by BOB (Burned Out Bulb) It's not there
Switch shorted (DING DING my problem) It's not there.
When the tech returned from vacation and found the problem (Warranted) They had a new switch fed-ex-ed overnight... (part 2 of my story about that outfit)
Part one.. They told me they could not get the part for a GM recall (Chevy Dealer) in 2 weeks so made a call and had it in my hand that evening... along with another business card.. Handed them in together 2 weeis later (National customer Service Manager for Workhorse.. Why do I think my account was flagged at that dealership?)

New story: Towed #2 had a lube pump.... Well it started blowing fuses.
Found they run the wires UNDER the frame and they had gotten Scruffed.... Fixed that one myself.

 

[Kirk]

Since 2014 Power Gear has been owned by Lippert - Drew Industries. Lippert has a pretty good reputation for customer support so you may want to consider calling them. The fact that both leveling and cruise control are not working might be a hint about what is causing the problem, but if the Power Gear control panel is lighting up, that means that it is getting power so any fuse would be inside for that to happen.

 

[jymbee]

Since 2014 Power Gear has been owned by Lippert - Drew Industries. Lippert has a pretty good reputation for customer support so you may want to consider calling them. The fact that both leveling and cruise control are not working might be a hint about what is causing the problem, but if the Power Gear control panel is lighting up, that means that it is getting power so any fuse would be inside for that to happen.

When we first noticed the problem she actually contacted Lippert. Unfortunately we were pressed for time and the contact was via text. NOT the best option for support in my view.

Given we had to install new house batteries. (another long, sad story...) the thinking was we just needed to "reset" the levelers. Apparently there are a number of different procedures depending on your particular setup we tried a bunch of them. "Press and hold this or that for xx seconds then 2 other buttons for xxx seconds". etc. etc. Nothing worked.

So whether it's just a matter of actually finding the correct reset sequence or another issue altogether remains to be seen.

I mentioned above another issue but couldn't remember what part was needed. Finally remembered that was a situation where the BEEP BEEP BEEP noise on the control panel would not stop and that was a problem with the sensor unit. New sensor fixed that.

If we can't figure anything out over the weekend. we have a scheduled appointment with a repair shop on the way to our next stop. I'll come back with, hopefully a solution that fixed the problem.

 

[OldWEB]

The leveller pump has its own circuit breaker, usually on one of the battery positive cables and it goes directly to the leveller pump, you check that to see if it was tripped? You mentioned battery replacement, was the leveller pump cable reattached properly?

 

[jymbee]

The leveller pump has its own circuit breaker, usually on one of the battery positive cables and it goes directly to the leveller pump, you check that to see if it was tripped? You mentioned battery replacement, was the leveller pump cable reattached properly?

Good point but as far as I can tell the connections on the new batts were reinstalled correctly. But that's good info to keep in mind.

 

[jymbee]

UPDATE:

After a LONG time spent testing everything the RV repair guy couldn't figure out anything. He claims that the leveler pump itself needs to be replaced. $600+ there.

Also, could not figure out why the brake lights are not working. Didn't even look at cruise control.

I have an appointment in the morning with a truck repair outfit familiar with motorhomes. Referred by CoachNet.

Hopefully they can figure out the most important main issues which are the brake lights and power to the toad. Best case scenario would be that they also have some insights as to the leveler situation and something could be done short of $$$$ for a new pump.

 

[Lou Schneider]

UPDATE:

After a LONG time spent testing everything the RV repair guy couldn't figure out anything. He claims that the leveler pump itself needs to be replaced. $600+ there.

Also, could not figure out why the brake lights are not working. Didn't even look at cruise control.

I have an appointment in the morning with a truck repair outfit familiar with motorhomes. Referred by CoachNet.

Hopefully they can figure out the most important main issues which are the brake lights and power to the toad. Best case scenario would be that they also have some insights as to the leveler situation and something could be done short of $$$$ for a new pump.

Most likely the non-working brake lights and cruise control are related - a bad or missing ground at the brake lights. The cruise control needs to see continuity to ground through the brake lamps to activate - that's why the cruise control disengages when you step on the brake pedal and put voltage on the brake lights. It's designed this way as a fail-safe so it won't activate if something happens to it's connection to the brake light line.

Take away the brake light ground and the cruise control won't see the path to ground through the lights. And the lights won't come on when voltage is applied from the brake light switch.

edit: I'd look for a problem around the melted trailer connector. 12 volts from the charging line in the harness (used with trailers to charge the on-board battery) cross-connected to the ground pin in the connector could melt the ground connection, keeping the lights and cruise control off. Make sure the ground connection actually goes to chassis ground.

 

[jymbee]

Most likely the non-working brake lights and cruise control are related - a bad or missing ground at the brake lights. The cruise control needs to see continuity to ground through the brake lamps to activate - that's why the cruise control disengages when you step on the brake pedal and put voltage on the brake lights. It's designed that way as a fail-safe so it won't activate if something happens to it's connection to the brake light line.

Take away the brake light ground and the cruise control won't see the path to ground through the lights. And the lights won't come on when voltage is applied from the brake light switch.

edit: I'd look for a problem around the melted trailer connector. 12 volts from the charging line in the harness (used in trailers to charge the on-board battery) cross-connected to the ground pin in the connector could melt the ground connection, keeping the lights and cruise control off. Make sure the ground connection actually goes to chassis ground.

Thanks much for the input. I'm going to take this and some other info received here and go over w/ this next repair shop. Hopefully they can make sense of it all.

 

[Kirk]

He claims that the leveler pump itself needs to be replaced. $600+ there.

Highly unlikely that the pump failed since it was not operating at the time that the problem occurred. I'm not at all surprised by the supposed diagnosis as many of the RV techs I have seen have very little knowledge of electrical systems and just throw parts at such problems. In addition, there are more than a few RV shops that pay the techs a commission on parts sold. It could easily be something as simple as a blown fuse or a bad connection. You need to get a multimeter out and trace voltage to the system and to check the resistance of connections. I'd but the tech did neither.

 

[jymbee]

We've had pretty good luck with RV repair shops in general, but I share your skepticism in general. The problem being that its only after a repair incident that you find out whether they know what they're doing or not.

Case in point was one outfit in FL that spent 3 hours trying to fix a problem, most of the time searching YouTube videos (bad sign!) and in the end not solving anything but charging for their ineptitude.

But in this issue with the levelers, it was a shop we've used in the past with very good results. As far as I could tell he did his best in that he removed and cleaned all the connections that had some erosion. Also tested all connections with multimeter and when all was done and said, reported that the levelers were getting power but the motor not responding. At least that's my layman's summary of his conclusion.

The brake lights not working is another issue altogether and we're dealing with another shop here in Austin. They did manage to find the issue with the toad not getting power underway (!) but the brake light is another issue. Longer story here but the bottom line is that we've going back there when we leave here and they're talking to Fleetwood &Ford re. schematics given that it apparently not an uncommon issue, but can be hard to diagnose.

 

[Kirk]

We've had pretty good luck with RV repair shops in general, but I share your skepticism in general

There are some excellent RV technicians out there who have very little understanding of in-depth electrical theory. As a result, they do well with most problems because only rarely do RV problems require more than a very basic knowledge of electricity. I have looked at several RV tech training schools and none that I'm aware of teach electrical theory, only the minimal basics. Also, because RV problems so seldom require an in depth understanding, RV techs really have little experience in dealing with such things unless they happen to have come from some other electrical service background. I don't blame the tech entirely for this. When you toss in the fact that many RV shops pay a commission on parts used by the techs or on replacement appliances, the result really isn't surprising.

 

[jymbee]

There are some excellent RV technicians out there who have very little understanding of in-depth electrical theory. As a result, they do well with most problems because only rarely do RV problems require more than a very basic knowledge of electricity. I have looked at several RV tech training schools and none that I'm aware of teach electrical theory, only the minimal basics. Also, because RV problems so seldom require an in depth understanding, RV techs really have little experience in dealing with such things unless they happen to have come from some other electrical service background. I don't blame the tech entirely for this. When you toss in the fact that many RV shops pay a commission on parts used by the techs or on replacement appliances, the result really isn't surprising.

You make a number of good points.

To add to the saga... I crawled under there today to take some photos before calling Lippert. They set up a case# that the repair outfit can use when calling in and they will work them to diagnose and hopefully resolve the problem. I've had very good experiences with Lippert support in the past and hopefully this will continue.

Anyway, back to saga part... when under there i saw that the reservoir level was below the sensor. Huh?! I asked Lippert if this could be an issue. "Absolutely", he said.

Not possible that the problem could be that simple?? And why would that not have been the 1st thing they addressed?

The damned fill hole is a bear to get at but I did manage to add some fluid. Above the sensor now but didn't have enough to fill to 1/4 inch from the fill as Lippert said.

Started the coach to see if that made a difference even if not at the highest level. But got a "Low Voltage" message and would not go into manual mode.

Starting to rain good now so going to put it out of my mind until the weather improves. Always something...

 

[Kirk]

But got a "Low Voltage" message

Isn't that a change from what you had before? I might have expected a Low Level rather than Low Voltage.

 

[jymbee]

Isn't that a change from what you had before? I might have expected a Low Level rather than Low Voltage.

Oh yeah, in the 6 years we've had the coach never seen that warning before. Also, did not realize that there could be a "Low Level" warning if the reservoir was down below a certain point?

I might be wrong but I'd think that kind of error, "Low Level" would have to come from the sensor itself and given it's below the sensor level now with no such warning displayed. Perhaps just not a feature of this particular setup?

 

[woof-n]

I would first get the fluid level up to factory spec and test. If that does not fix the problem I believe as other have stated, you have a ground problem. I have had my digital VOM trick me into thinking my ground was adequate when it was not. The ground was good enough for the digital meter but not the load. Now when I am chasing ground problems, I like to use a load of incandescent bulb/s to simulate a load on the ground. In one case, very long story short. I found a factory ground ring over crimped. Only two strands of the multi strand wire were still intact under the insulation at the ring terminal. The result was the two strands told my digital meter I had continuity, but ground was not capable of the load. The low voltage alert on your PMI could be from very high impedance at the ground. In my case, once I tested with the light bulb, the blub would not light. I went back hooked my VOM up and had continuity. Hooked the light bulb up nothing. I chased the wire back to the ground. When I did a gentle tug test on the ground wire you could feel the wire was mainly attached by the insulation. I striped the insulation back an found two strands connected and the others broke and carboned up. This is really a one off, but it does happen. Your short could have stressed a marginal ground There are automotive shops that specialize in 12-volt electric repairs. On the tough problems they can be a good choice. Good luck. Please let us know what you find.

 

[Kirk]

Also, did not realize that there could be a "Low Level" warning if the reservoir was down below a certain point?

I am not familiar with PowerGear systems, but figured that if it has a low voltage warning it might also have a low level warning. That was only a guess on my part but if there are level sensors they must do something and it probably is the reason for the pump not operating. Some pumps are damaged if allowed to run dry. Your operating manual should list the warning indications it has and probably address what happens with low fluid level.

 

[jymbee]

Been meaning to get back to this thread to post progress... so far.

This new shop (Cox Automotive in Austin) found the problem causing power not getting to the tow. It was a bad connection somewhere along the way (they gave the schematic w/ the location).

Unfortunately the no working brake lights & cruise was was much harder to diagnose. They did manage to get detailed schematics from Ford after multiple requests and fairly long waits and worked through all. Wiring, switches, were all suspect but in the end the problem turned out to be a fuse. A very hard to locate fuse that could only be seen by removing cowling around/under dash near driver's side. Didn't even look like an obvious fuse. But replacing that fixed both the brake lights and the cruise control-- which was something that Lou Schneider and others suggested was going on.

Yep, given the time to find this thing it turned out to be a small but very, very expensive fuse.

Levelers? Well, the low voltage error turned out to be a wire left disconnected by previous tech given the old one was going to be placed. It was also confirmed that even after topping off the reservoir, and power getting through the solenoid that the problem was the pump itself.

Took a few days to get a new pump so we went back there between next stops. Got the old one off only to discover that this new pump had a broken piece! The box was dented so they did look inside but the broken part was only obvious when the motor was taken out and turned upside down.

Lippert had one new in stock and agreed to replace, but even "overnight" could take a few days so we went on to our next part about 90 minutes from that shop and they agreed to come to the site to install the replacement at no extra service charge for mileage.

I didn't really blame them but they were so apologetic and took total responsibility for not checking the new more carefully. Not sure how many repair shops would be that accommodating.

Hopefully wrap up this ongoing sage with a report that levelers are working.