Would you buy an EV?

[Tom]

This week one of our clubs had a presentation by the owner of a local Ford dealership. He drives an all-electric truck and brought the truck and an electric Mustang to the meeting. Some takeaways for me (not in order of priority) were:

• High initial price, but Tesla's recent price drops will affect industry EV prices
• 8-year warranty, including battery
• Resale value
• Battery replacement $30-40K
• Added weight (due to batteries) = more tire wear
• Lower maintenance costs (no oil changes, no drivetrain)
• Those ICE vehicle maintenance costs are 50% of dealership revenue
• Quick acceleration
• Cost of must-have home charger
• $300K cost of Ford-mandated super charger in dealership
• Availability of cross-country chargers
• Price of charges is much less than an equivalent gas tank refill
• Miles on an in-transit charge
• Batteries will die in cold climates
• Less wear on brakes

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

The truck will tow a load less than 100 miles between charges.

 

[markandkim]

No way. Nothing I could use being a fulltimer.

 

[LarsMac]

So, when they have an EV that I can pull as a Toad, that also has a charger that can be mounted in the RV, and charge the EV on the fly, ..., And,..., when the can come up with battery pack that can make 300 in a day, regardless of the Ambient Temperature. Then I may give it some serious though.

 

[stripit]

I own a Tesla and love it, but also own other gas and diesel vehicles. I sure wish the electric vehicles could be flat towed as I know a couple other rvers who would buy one to tow behind their motorhomes.

 

[DonTom]

I own a Tesla and love it, but also own other gas and diesel vehicles. I sure wish the electric vehicles could be flat towed as I know a couple other rvers who would buy one to tow behind their motorhomes.

I carry an electric motorcycle on a cycle ramp on my RVs.

I own seven EVs:

2017 Zero DS (Orange)-- the one I take on my RV trips in my avatar here.--It has been all over the USA--includes all over AZ, except for Phoenix- This was my very first electric vehicle and then I was hooked!

2017 Zero SR with Power Tank (Red).

2018 Tesla Model 3, LR, AWD (Blue).

2020 Energica Esse Ese 9 (Blue).

2022 Chevy Bolt (Red).

2023 Energica Experira (Bormio Ice).

2023 Zero DSR/X (Green).

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[SargeW]

I have considered one. But in the west the lack of chargers for great distances is a big negative for me. I would consider a hybrid for our next car, but Diane wants something like a SUV or possibly even a truck like the Ford Maverick. It's still at least 6 months off, so we will see what manufacturers come out with this year or next.

 

[TheBar]

I wrote off electric trucks after watching this video.

 

[DonTom]

The truck will tow a load less than 100 miles between charges.

The standard Ford F-150 has a 98 KWH battery, so expect ~230 miles average NOT towing and 115 miles when towing before the battery runs out of juice.

But you can also get it with a 131 KWH battery. Now 300 mile range/150 when towing.

The 131 KWH battery truck itself weight almost 6,000 lbs./ 2,600 kg). So range isn't great. But you want weight up front when towing. Vehicle should be heavier than the toad.

See here.

Most people panic when near Zero % SOC, but there is a reserve that doesn't show. You can go below zero in any BEV I know of. Not that I suggest doing such. But the little extra range is there when you really need it.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[IBTripping]

I would not want any of the current crop of EV tow vehicles. But, new battery technology is likely to result in EVs with much longer range. However, I like the new Ram that has a plug in EV battery with a V6 to charge the battery for longer trips. Since my tow vehicle is also my daily driver, it's battery would be sufficient for my mostly local driving. And, would allow me to tow my travel trailer on the few road trips I take each year.

 

[DonTom]

But in the west the lack of chargers for great distances is a big negative for me.

Such as where, these days, for modern BEV cars?

But true for older EVs and most electric motorcycles.

See here for charger locations.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

I think if I towed a lot, I would want a diesel, as are most tow trucks. At least for these days.

But since I never tow anything these days, a BEV pickup truck would be fine with me. I have been thinking about buying one, but I really don't need one. But that has never stopped me from buying anything so far.

I certainly do not need 11 motorcycles. . . .

And I am one short as the formula for how many motorcycles to own is "N+1". The "N" to represent the number currently owned. So I should own a dozen.

IAC, I do not expect to buy another ICE vehicle or ICE anything for the rest of my life.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Isaac-1]

Not just yet, fast charger infrastructure is getting better around where I live, but is still not there yet, too many potential routes away from here that I occasionally drive with no fast charging along the way for at least 170+ miles. Though this is getting better, with 2 new Tesla Superchargers installed within 90 miles in the last couple of years. There are exactly zero Tesla Supercharger on the 279 mile drive from my house to Dallas, TX (google suggested best route), though there is now a new one built in the last year that would only add 15 miles to the trip each way.

p.s. a 115 mile towing range for a pickup truck would probably be fine for well over 50% of pickup owners, many of which never tow anything, and out of the rest probably half of those only tow a utility trailer to the local garden center, or a boat to the local lake, never towing any great distance.

 

[DonTom]

There are exactly zero Tesla Supercharger on the 279 mile drive from my house to Dallas, TX

The newer Teslas can charge with any charger, if you have the adapters. So with an $80.00 CCS adapter, you can use the chargers at Wally*Marts and other places.

BTW, even the older Teslas can with a hardware modification I recently did for "CCS adapter support". Newer Teslas already have it.

The thingy I replaced in my 2018 Tesla is shown below on top. Was really just for something to do in my case, as I almost never need to charge on the road. My longer trips are with an ICE RV.

Wasn't hard to get to, located behind the charge port which I got to via the trunk:



But in newer Teslas, you only need this (I needed both items):



-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Isaac-1]

That helps some, but according to plugshare on this route that only adds a few car dealerships where the charger is available only weekdays during business hours, and a motel that list it for guest use only.

 

[DonTom]

That helps some, but according to plugshare on this route that only adds a few car dealerships where the charger is available only weekdays during business hours, and a motel that list it for guest use only.

The motel ones are normally only good for staying overnight anyway, as those are just AC supplies. Will take hours to get a full charge. They use the charger inside the vehicle. Often 12 KW.

Car dealerships are usually CCS (DC fast charging), can be as high as around 350 KW,, even faster than Tesla.

Same with many gas stations, such as the one I have used here on my motorcycles (but at 22KW, not 350 KW!). If the 50KW is available, I will use it to save the 350 KW ones for others who can use that much power.

CCS chargers always have the power rating shown on them.

Other than Tesla, this is common at CCS locations for some chargers to be a higher rating than others, right in the same lot. Always use the one that is lowest if it is still at the max capacity of your EV and available. Save the higher power ones for those who can use them who may come in to charge while you're charging.

My Chevy Bolt can only charge at 55 KW. My Tesla can charge at 250 KW or so. Some newer EVs can do 350 KW. But I have only seen Tesla superchargers as high as 250 KW (Tesla V3 & V4 SuperChargers) . And 150 KW is still common (V2). I don't think there are any V1 Tesla Superchargers still in service, which were 100 KW shared. That means if the one right next to yours is also being used, it's only 50 KW max.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

The DC fast charge rates for those in a big hurry to charge:

The Fastest-Charging EVs (Max Peak Charge Rating):​

1. 2022 Hummer EV Pickup (350 kW)
2. 2022 Lucid Air (300 kW)
3. 2024 GMC Hummer EV SUV (300 kW)
4. 2022 Audi E-Tron GT (270 kW)
5. 2022 Porsche Taycan (270 kW)
6. 2022 Tesla Model S (250 kW)
7. 2022 Tesla Model X (250 kW)
8. 2022 Tesla Model 3 (250 kW)
9. 2022 Tesla Model Y (250 kW)
10. 2022 Kia EV6 (240 kW)
11. 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 (235 kW)
12. 2022 Rivian R1S (220 kW)
13. 2022 Rivian R1T (220 kW)
14. 2022 BMW iX (200 kW)
15. 2022 Mercedes-EQ EQS (200 kW)
16. 2022 BMW i4 (195 kW)
17. 2023 Cadillac Lyriq (190 kW)
18. 2023 Mercedes-EQ EQE (170 kW)
19. 2023 Volkswagen ID Buzz (170 kW)
20. 2022 Polestar 2 (155 kW)
21. 2022 Volvo C40 Recharge (155 kW)
22. 2022 Volvo XC40 Recharge (155 kW)
23. 2022 Audi E-Tron (150 kW)
24. 2022 Ford Mustang Mach E (150 kW)
25. 2023 Toyota bZ4x (150 kW)
26. 2023 Nissan Ariya (130 kW)
27. 2023 Audi Q4 E-Tron (125 kW)
28. 2023 Volkswagen ID4 (125 kW)
29. 2022 Jaguar I-Pace (100 kW)
30. 2023 Mercedes-EQ EQB (100 kW)
31. 2023 Nissan Leaf (100 kW)
32. 2023 Subaru Solterra (100 kW)
33. 2023 Kia Niro EV (85 kW)
34. 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric (75 kW)
35. 2022 Chevrolet Bolt (55 kW)
36. 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EUV (55 kW)
37. 2022 Mazda MX-30 (50 kW)
38. 2022 Mini Hardtop Cooper SE (50 kW)

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Not just yet, fast charger infrastructure is getting better around where I live, but is still not there yet, too many potential routes away from here that I occasionally drive with no fast charging along the way for at least 170+ miles.

My Tesla could do those 170+ miles all uphill against the wind on a cold day, running the heater or defroster, seat heaters and all.

But I want to let you know those with Tesla accounts may vote on Tesla Supercharge locations.

Do that here. Since it requires a Tesla login, let me know of a location that you think would be needed and I can vote for you (or others).

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[jadebox]

The DC fast charge rates for those in a big hurry to charge:

The Fastest-Charging EVs (Max Peak Charge Rating):​

The Peak charging rate is misleading. For example, the Teslas can maintain that rate only for a very brief time. Here is an article where real-world charging speeds are compared:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g46011090/fastest-slowest-ev-charging-times-tested/

Oh, and in response to the OP, yes .... In fact, I recently bought my second EV.

 

[John From Detroit]

I own a Tesla and love it, but also own other gas and diesel vehicles. I sure wish the electric vehicles could be flat towed as I know a couple other rvers who would buy one to tow behind their motorhomes.

I think this is the best option. The EV is good as a local "Run around" Grocery getter type ride but I think for cross Country ICE still has the Top Spot.

That said. There's a web site where you can enter a make and model of EV and your zip code and it computers the MPGe for your vehicle. That is the enviormental impact compared to a ICE ride.
If your ride comes in both ICE and EV models as many do and you get say 30 MPG on the ICE but the MPGe for that ride is only 25.. (Not the actual numbers but that's how it worked for me) ICE is better.

Why the zip code... The MPGe depends on your power company How much is coal/oil/gas generated (And which of those) Atomic, or "Natural" (Solar,wind,hydro) all figured in the calculation.