Wrist Pin Failure on Cummins ISL

[randyf]

I am seeking others who have experienced a wrist pin failure on the Cummins ISL engine.  I experienced a failure recently and it totally destroyed the engine.  Requires complete replacement.  It is on a 2006 Tiffin bus with 49000 miles. The serial number is in the range of the recall for this problem but Cummins said since it is oficially out of warranty that they will only pay a portion of the repair cost, which as you can imagine is not a small amount.  I was wondering if anyone else reading this has experienced a failure and if so, the year and mileage of your rig when it happened.  And did Cummins assist you in the repair bill.  I am told most of the failures happened within hundreds of miles and not thousands.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Assuming your engine falls in the recall range, the repair should be fully covered by the manufacturer. Warranty is irrelevant if a formal NHTSA recall is issued.

"Repair"cost may be subjective, though, if the entire engine must be replaced. They could perhaps pro-rate the normal wear and tear on undamaged parts? But if replacement is the only possible repair, how else can it be done?  You may have to push back hard to get better compensation. Consider hiring an attorney to help if Cummins doesn't come up with a better offer.

NHTSA Campaign Number: 07E033000
Vehicle/Equipment Make: CUMMINS
Vehicle/Eqipment Model: ISL CM850
Model Year: n/a
Mfg Campaign Number:
Mfg Component Desc: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINEIESEL
Mfg Involved in Recall: CUMMINS, INC.
Manufacture Dates:
Type of Report: (E) Vehicle
Potential # of Units Affected: 2,159
Date Owner Notified by Mfg: 07-20-07
Recall Initiated By: MFR
Mfg Responsible for Recall: CUMMINS, INC.
Report Recieved Date: 06-04-07
Record Creation Date: 06-08-07
Regulation Part Number:
FMVSS Number:
Defect Summary: CERTAIN ISL CUMMINS CM850 DIESEL ENGINES PRODUCED FOR RECREATIONAL VEHICLE APPLICATIONS BETWEEN OCTOBER 17, 2005, AND APRIL 18, 2006, WITH ENGINE SERIAL NUMBER RANGE FROM 46543077 TO 46603939. THE CONNECTING ROD CONTAINS A MACHINING DEFECT IN THE WRIST PIN BUSHING OF THE ROD THAT COULD CAUSE SEIZURE OF THE PISTON PIN.
Consequence Summary: IF ALLOWED TO PROGRESS, THIS COULD LEAD TO ENGINE FAILURE WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF THE ROD RUPTURING THE BLOCK CAVITY. OIL AND DEBRIS ON THE ROADWAY COULD RESULT IN A VEHICLE CRASH.
Corrective Summary: EACH VEHICLE MANUFACTURER WILL NOTIFY OWNERS OF VEHICLES THAT CONTAIN THESE ENGINES ABOUT THIS DEFECT. CUMMINS WILL CONDUCT THE REMEDY CAMPAIGN AND PROVIDE QUARTERLY COMPLETION REPORTS BROKEN DOWN BY VEHICLE MANUFACTURER; HOWEVER THE VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RECALL. VEHICLES WILL BE REPAIRED AT NO COST TO THE OWNER. THE RECALL BEGAN ON JULY 20, 2007. OWNERS CAN CONTACT EITHER THEIR VEHICLE MANUFACTURER OR CUMMINS CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE CENTER AT 1-800-343-7357.

 

[randyf]

Cummins contacted me today and said they would agree to pay 75% of the cost.  Even after I showed them an invoice from their shop in Houston that stated they had installed the pressure sensor that would generate an alarm if the crankcase pressure increased and you could then take it to a shop before major damage occurred.  It didn't work.  The only alarm I got was just before I heard the BOOM I heard a KA.  But they said since the failure has only occurred in a small number of the affected engines and I was three years out of warranty so they could not cover the entire cost.  Even though the invoice from Houston stated the same thing Gary stated.  "The repaires would be paid regardless of warranty status".  They said if someone came in 30 years from now with the problem they could never cover the entire cost.  As Gary said, I guess they are taking into affect normal wear and tear.  Although it seems a diesel should not even be broke in at 49000 miles.  Plus it has been in the shop five times for the engine since I purchased it new in 2006 with oil leaks and fuel line problems.  But guess I'm a little lucky.  The 25% I have to pay is a lot better than the initial quote I received.  Freightliner in Tucson wanted $47,000 and said not to get my hopes up for any help from Cummins.  I had it towed to Cummins in Phoenix and the price dropped to $32,000 and I pay 25% plus whatever it cost to have the radiator removed and flushed.  For some reason they don't include that as part of the normal repair.  But if anyone wants a 2006 Allegro Bus in very good condition with a new engine there will probably be one available in a few weeks. I've about had all the RV problems I can handle in a lifetime.  Seems all my vacations are taken up having it fixed.  I had actually just retired two weeks earlier and was  headed to Alaska for four months when this happened.  Only made it 1500 miles from home. 

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Seems strange to me. I don't know what "a small number of affected engines" has to do with paying for the repair. If it's a failure under the recall, it seems like it ought to be 100% covered. Trouble is, hiring an attorney (and finding one who has some familiarity with recall-related law) is a gamble and could easily add thousands to the cost if unsuccessful.

This is a real bummer for you and discouraging to all diesel RV owners.

 

[randyf]

It will cause you to loose a lot of interest but I did tell Cummins I would pay the cost but was not by any means going to drop it.  If they didn't mean "Regardless of the warranty status" then what did they mean.  Sort of like you can keep your doctor and your insurance, but that's not exactly what they meant.  A warranty only has two status, you got it or you ain't.  But as you say Gary, attorneys can cost more than the case is worth.  I did see where Ohio had some class action lemon law thing going but that usually ends up where the lawyer gets a million and you get a nickle.  Hopefully Cummins will agree to what they said.  But, let me thank everyone on this forum and the Tiffin forum who responded to my original post or I would of never even known that there was a recall on this.  I had never received any notice from Cummins and did not even know they had installed the sensor when I took it in for the oil leaks.  I read the invoice which stated it but didn't know that was what it was for.  If not for you guys I guess I would of never known and would of left it at Freightliner in Tucson and been out a whole lot more money.  So again, thanks to everyone.  It's good to have friends.

 

[bucks2]

It may help to make a phone call to the state attorney general's office. I've had a couple of instances with insurance companies where they swore they just couldn't pay for things and the insurance commissioners office says that there is settled case law that they must pay. When confronted with the facts from the IC office, the insurance companies rolled over instantly.

Knowledge is power. The AG may be able to tell you exactly what is required and give you the free advice and clout that you need to get your rig fixed.

Ken

 

[driftless shifter]

Agreeing with Ken. You may have rights in your state that Cummins hopes you don't know about. The state AG is your friend.

Bill

 

[Bunnwe]

I have a 2005 Holiday Rambler with 40K miles and just got it out of the shop from replacing the Cummins 400 ISL engine. After the shop went through the engine it was note the number 4 piston sleeve had disintegrated causing major damage to the piston and values and making a hole in the block.
I just got the unit back 18/Jul/14 (after 15 weeks, 9 weeks with extended warranty and 6 weeks ordering and replacing) went camping this past weekend and with less than 200 miles had to be towed again due to the torque converter seal blew and drained all the transmission fluid.
Have not had a chance to contact Cummins but could the transmission issue be a related problem with the engine replacement.

 

[driftless shifter]

They'll say no, however if there was any struggling to mate engine to tranny the seal could have easily been damaged. If a new seal was installed during engine replacement it could have been installed to deep or not deep enough. If the seal was not replaced during repair it should have been as normal procedure for that kind of major dis-assembly. Stick to your guns and blame them as they will most certainly try to blame anything else but them. If it was me I would be livid, and going nuclear with the first word of denial.

Bill

 

[Bunnwe]

They have pulled it in the shop and indicated if it was something they did they will fix it, but you know how that will go. Anyhow, I will keep you updated and thanks for the info

 

[Mavarick]

Found out from the shop today the bolts on the flywheel sheered off causing the problem. The shop is puzzled how the bolts sheered off, but think it could have been due to a new torque engine and they did not replace the flywheel bolts. Not sure if they replace the flywheel.
They are attempting to say it must have been on a hill rolling backwards and I transferred to forward. After just spending over 24K, I told them I was babying the coach and maybe they should have added 10.00 more on the bill and added new bolts.

Bun, On engines with considerably more mileage shearing off flex plate bolts is somewhat common. Loud grinding, popping noise, then off to the shop for replacement of the bolts and flex plate that has egg shaped holes. In your case the flywheel to flexplate (torque) had to be disconnected for the engine to be removed. No way the bolts backed out enough to be sheared off if they were installed with Loctite blue and torqued to the proper spec. Tell them to pound sand and call you when the repairs are finished. This should be their nickel IMO.

 

[keymastr]

Call your insurance agent and explain what has occurred. He can suggest a professional to inspect the broken parts and will help you to make a case for the bill being at their cost, a pro whose testimony and credentials will stand up in court.  As Mavarick has stated there is no way this is not related to them and in fact those may be one-time use bolts due to the stretch they receive when torqued. Stand your ground and have representation if they act at all like they do not realize this has to be their fault.