The Downside of Cell Boosters!

[Ex-Calif]

I got a lesson from AT&T today.

When I was remote from a tower (about 4 miles and some trees) I bought a signal booster and installed it in the RV. Antenna on the roof, the box in a cabinet and the repeating antenna inside the coach. About 6 weeks ago I moved into a rental house for a period while my new MH is awaiting delivery.

I moved Marvin to the rental house about 4 weeks ago.

Today I got a knock on the door and there was an AT&T tech outside asking if I had an antenna as they were getting signal noise in my area. I was not thinking about the repeater in the RV but as he explained that it had to be close it dawned on me that I did. He went to his car and got his scanner and I led him to the RV. The screen was like a B&W oscilloscope and you could see that the signal was "dirty" like 3/4 scale on the screen.

I reached in the door and unplugged the power to the unit and the signal immediately cleared to flat line. In fact I had been only getting like 1 Verizon bar on my phone which I thought was bad because I am in the "city" of Live Oak. After he left I checked my phone and I am not getting 3 bars!

He explained that in most RV installations the receiving antenna and the transmitting antenna are too close together and they simply screw each other up and create noise. This also explains why I did not perceive any signal improvement after installing this thing. There really was no guidance on how far apart to set the antennas as all the install pictures showed a house and they probably just presume the separation will be OK.

I probably will rethink the install and try and get the transmitting antenna as far away from the receiving antenna as I can before I use it again.

He also reminded me that intentionally jamming towers is a federal bust but "with a guy like you" there won't be any suspicion of that. I asked him if people were complaining and he said that the first thing was that 911 calls were getting "dropped" - Yikes, that's not good. He also said there aren't many guys doing his job as he came from Orlando to Live Oak to troubleshoot this.

Lessons learned...

 

[PJ Stough]

I believe that in the WeBoost line of cell boosters for RVs have an automatic reduction in power when they get close to cell towers as to not interfere with signals to and from the tower, but some WeBoost cell boosters that are made for fixed locations but used in RVs or other vehicles going down the road can cause problems with cell tower signals.
If your signal is oscillating between the indoor and outdoor antennas, it should show on the booster.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Weboost also includes warnings about separation in their set-up instructions. It's a real problem, as Ex-Calif's report shows.

 

[NY_Dutch]

We've completely retired our cell booster after making multiple comparisons to our newer MIMO aimable twin-yagi antenna set. The MIMO set has equaled or exceeded the booster's performance everywhere we've needed a signal boost so far. And the MIMO set was a lot cheaper as well...

 

[PJ Stough]

Weboost also includes warnings about separation in their set-up instructions. It's a real problem, as Ex-Calif's report shows.

We dont have the problem with oscillation with our 4-G booster as we did with our 3-G booster. With our 4-g booster we get no oscillation even with the inside antenna facing toward the rear of the motorhome, but with the 3-G booster we would get oscillation if we aimed the inside antenna toward the rear of the motorhome. It seems that the inside antenna broadcast with more power on the 3-G system that with the 4-G system.

 

[PJ Stough]

We've completely retired our cell booster after making multiple comparisons to our newer MIMO aimable twin-yagi antenna set. The MIMO set has equaled or exceeded the booster's performance everywhere we've needed a signal boost so far. And the MIMO set was a lot cheaper as well...

View attachment 151205

What do you have your MIMO antenna connected to?

 

[DonTom]

Do those "cell boosters" really help much? Do they give as much range on AT&T as I get with my Verizon?

Does anybody with Verizon find they need a cell booster? It's so rare for mine not to work I can remember the few places where it didn't over the many thousands of miles over the years. And I doubt if a "cell booster" would help at any of those places.

-Don- Ladson, SC

 

[IBTripping]

Do those "cell boosters" really help much? Do they give as much range on AT&T as I get with my Verizon?

Does anybody with Verizon find they need a cell booster? It's so rare for mine not to work I can remember the few places where it didn't over the many thousands of miles over the years. And I doubt if a "cell booster" would help at any of those places.

-Don- Ladson, SC

I use an expensive booster specifically for Verizon (I use Visible which uses Verizon network). My cell service went from one bar to 3 bars. So, it works well for me. However, if I have to upgrade or change cell providers, I'd check out the MIMO aimable twin-yagi antenna set which NY_Dutch uses.

https://smile.amazon.com/Periodic-Antenna-Waveform-600-6000-Boosters/dp/B095JB5BWY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=35YVQ1LC7OSZS&keywords=mimo+aimable+twin-yagi+antenna&qid=1641857318&sprefix=%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-3

 

[DonTom]

My cell service went from one bar to 3 bars. So, it works well for me.

I have to wonder how much of those two more bars is noise. Does your cell now work in places where it didn't before? That is all that counts.

-Don- Ladson, SC

 

[NY_Dutch]

What do you have your MIMO antenna connected to?

The two antennas are connected to either our AT&T or Verizon hotspots. Both support MIMO use. Which one depends on the available signal strengths in the area. Sometimes one service is strong enough that our basic dual omni MIMO antenna set is more than enough, so the weaker service gets the yagi MIMO set. Other times, only one service has any detectable signal, so of course that one gets the yagi set.

 

[PJ Stough]

The two antennas are connected to either our AT&T or Verizon hotspots. Both support MIMO use. Which one depends on the available signal strengths in the area. Sometimes one service is strong enough that our basic dual omni MIMO antenna set is more than enough, so the weaker service gets the yagi MIMO set. Other times, only one service has any detectable signal, so of course that one gets the yagi set.

Do both hotspots get the same signal strength most of the time? Or do the differ sometimes, so you use the one with the best signal?

 

[NY_Dutch]

Do both hotspots get the same signal strength most of the time? Or do the differ sometimes, so you use the one with the best signal?

The available signal strengths are relative to the distance from the towers, and it's not uncommon for AT&T and Verizon to be on different towers. We use the best available signal with either antenna set for our primary service that handles streaming, etc., and we may use the weaker signal for lesser applications like our cell phones, tablets, or general surfing on our laptops. Our previous booster didn't provide the same strength from both providers either. Being able to mix and match works well for us.

 

[PJ Stough]

The available signal strengths are relative to the distance from the towers, and it's not uncommon for AT&T and Verizon to be on different towers. We use the best available signal with either antenna set for our primary service that handles streaming, etc., and we may use the weaker signal for lesser applications like our cell phones, tablets, or general surfing on our laptops. Our previous booster didn't provide the same strength from both providers either. Being able to mix and match works well for us.

You have the added expense of paying for two different accounts. Have you tried using the MIMO antenna and just one service?

 

[NY_Dutch]

You have the added expense of paying for two different accounts. Have you tried using the MIMO antenna and just one service?

I pay $48.49/mo combined for the two unlimited (no throttling ever) data services. If each service had good coverage everywhere we go, one service would indeed work for us. Until that unlikely situation occurs though...

 

[Rob&Deryl]

I use a pair of log periodic cell antennas similar to a ny-Dutch but on a mast attached to my rear ladder. They are connected to my cellular router in place of the 2 Omni antenna. Where I am parked right now, there is a verizon tower a bit east which at line of site is through the trailer behind me. The mast gets the antennas above it.
We have a t-mobile & a Verizon sim installed in the router. Sometimes one or the other service is either not available or the signal strength is too low. Also, our “unlimited “ plans throttle after a certain amount of use. If both services are available, we just switch when that happens.
Yes, it would be cheaper with 1 and, heck, lots cheaper with zero but no service would not meet our wants & needs.

 

[jymbee]

We've completely retired our cell booster after making multiple comparisons to our newer MIMO aimable twin-yagi antenna set. The MIMO set has equaled or exceeded the booster's performance everywhere we've needed a signal boost so far. And the MIMO set was a lot cheaper as well...

Dutch-- how have you routed the cable from the antenna to your hotspot(s)?

Looks to me like a good use for the OTA antenna as we never watch anything OTA.

 

[Ex-Calif]

Dutch-- how have you routed the cable from the antenna to your hotspot(s)?

Looks to me like a good use for the OTA antenna as we never watch anything OTA.

I used the supplied antenna and mounted it on the OTA mast - It looks very similar to my OTA antenna except it's a lot smaller. It didn't really occur to me to try and connect to the OTA cable.

I could have been more creative in routing but I just routed it to the edge of the roof, made a penetration on the side of the RV and directly into the back of a cabinet. I sealed it with a rubber grommet and RTV.

I have to wonder how much of those two more bars is noise. Does your cell now work in places where it didn't before? That is all that counts.

-Don- Ladson, SC

The AT&T guy said that these repeaters were "pretty powerful" - I guess that is legit if my unit was jamming the main tower here in town.

Intellectually I am aware that antenna placement and orientation is very important in getting performance. I can admit that as "an amateur" in these things the best I would get would be largely by accident. I suppose if one had signal strength equipment one could try various locations and separations for the antennas to get the best performance. However I now know that amateurs can actually screw up towers if they don't know what they are doing with this equipment.

He also said that there are instances where you could have zero bars and this equipment could pick up a signal that the phone could not. I am still skeptical of that but I really don't know.

In regards to your Verizon question - I bought mine because I had a terrible Verizon signal (worse AT&T albeit) and I was working from home and had to get more reliable voice and tethering. Voice improved with this (no ore dropped calls) but tethering and streaming was never great where I was. It was usable but I got periodic to frequent pixelating on zoom calls and seldom video lockups requiring a hang up and restart.

If I use it again it is gonna be in a remote place where I have little chance of interfering with a tower. I am thinking to put the antenna on a mast with loops on the rear ladder. Maybe raiseable with like a Halyard type hoist. That way I cold probably get 10 feet or so elevation above the RV roof.

 

[DonTom]

The AT&T guy said that these repeaters were "pretty powerful" - I guess that is legit if my unit was jamming the main tower here in town.

That means very little. It's mainly a signal to noise ratio that counts. It does little good to amplify noise along with the signal. The jamming was most likely because it was putting out mostly garbage instead of only a legitimate signal.

The only thing that proves it helps is when you can use your cell reliably in areas where you couldn't before.

-Don- North Charleston, SC

 

[Ex-Calif]

That means very little. It's mainly a signal to noise ratio that counts. It does little good to amplify noise along with the signal. The jamming was most likely because it was putting out mostly garbage instead of only a legitimate signal.

The only thing that proves it helps is when you can use your cell reliably in areas where you couldn't before.

-Don- North Charleston, SC

I did get slightly better performance on the Verizon network - Probably wasn't clear on that.

My point (unstated) was that there is no use of the power if the antenna are not optimized and are creating their own problems.

Now that I know a little more about antenna interference I think I can get better performance next time I am in the boonies...

 

[johnhicks]

I assume it was getting feedback and essentially "screeching" on the frequency.

I wonder why people install cell "booster" repeaters, given their seperation requirements and/or limited indoor range. A jetpack hotspot or cell router with external antennae avoids those problems and will do VoIP with phones.