Gasoline is cheaper these days!

[Larry N.]

"They bought the stamps from S&H and gave them as bonuses to shoppers based on the dollar amount of a purchase. A 1963 magazine article stated that the average supermarket paid $2.45 for the stamps needed to fill one collector book."

S&H Green Stamps - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, I recall S&H green stamps- we used to get them with groceries, gas, etc. when I was younger. There were also plaid stamps and one or two others around, though not so commonly found.

My objection to Don's post was the misconception many people get with the use of the word "free" seemingly indicating no cost, rather than meaning "included at no extra cost." If it were truly "free" you wouldn't have to pay anything at all and could still get it.

 

[DonTom]

Now do an average wage comparison for your typical middle class family. Is the average wage in 1957 about the same in 2024 adjusted for inflation?

That would be more difficult. The main problem is that when a family puts two people to work instead of one, it will cause inflation to the point that it will soon require both to be working to buy the same stuff as one person used to be able to. At least in many cases.

But:

In 1957, average earnings for year-round, full-time workers over the age of 14 was $4713 for men and $3008 for women. Source: Occupational Outlook Handbook,Table 1, page 25.

So that averages to around $4,512.00 per year in 1957.

The national average salary in the U.S. in Q4 of 2023 was $59,384.

$4,512.00 plus inflation of 984.3% is $48,923.616 in today's money.

For males, $4,713 plus 984.3% is $51,103.059.

So we should be doing better today. The main issue is that housing has gone up way more than inflation in many areas, leaving us less money for other stuff.


Median USA house price in 1957=$12,220.00

Median USA house price today= $412,000

$12,220 plus 984.3%=$132,501

It's obvious where the problem really is. The average house today should cost 132.5K$, not 412K$.

So we now have less money for other stuff, including groceries and gasoline.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Skookum]

Wouldn't a comparison of median household incomes to median home prices be a little more useful than average salary to median home price? I think the conclusion still stands, but using the mentioned metrics would make more sense?

 

[DonTom]

Wouldn't a comparison of median household incomes to median home prices be a little more useful than average salary to median home price? I think the conclusion still stands, but using the mentioned metrics would make more sense?

You're welcome to do you own searches and see what you can come up with. I assume it will be close enough to show the real problem is housing.

Perhaps the homeless are better off these days than the homeless of the past. Perhaps that's why we now have so many more of them.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Moho81]

That would be more difficult. The main problem is that when a family puts two people to work instead of one, it will cause inflation to the point that it will soon require both to be working to buy the same stuff as one person used to be able to. At least in many cases.

But:

In 1957, average earnings for year-round, full-time workers over the age of 14 was $4713 for men and $3008 for women. Source: Occupational Outlook Handbook,Table 1, page 25.

So that averages to around $4,512.00 per year in 1957.

The national average salary in the U.S. in Q4 of 2023 was $59,384.

$4,512.00 plus inflation of 984.3% is $48,923.616 in today's money.

For males, $4,713 plus 984.3% is $51,103.059.

So we should be doing better today. The main issue is that housing has gone up way more than inflation in many areas, leaving us less money for other stuff.


Median USA house price in 1957=$12,220.00

Median USA house price today= $412,000

$12,220 plus 984.3%=$132,501

It's obvious where the problem really is. The average house today should cost 132.5K$, not 412K$.

So we now have less money for other stuff, including groceries and gasoline.

-Don- Reno, NV

Interesting that gas and salary have increased pretty level through time. I was guessing that gas was to increase a lot more than salary because it certainly feels like gas prices are out of control.

 

[Onyrlef]

You're welcome to do you own searches and see what you can come up with. I assume it will be close enough to show the real problem is housing.

Perhaps the homeless are better off these days than the homeless of the past. Perhaps that's why we now have so many more of them.

-Don- Reno, NV

Exactly, when I worked at Sam's Clubs what I made was pocket money, both my wife and I were retired. I just wondered how the single mother with kids clearing $500.00 a week, at best, was making ends meet. To make matters worse Wal Mart Corp. regularly cut 40 hr. workers to 32 hrs. in order to scratch back bonuses and annual raises and to offset slowdown in Jan.,Feb. and Mar. from the peak sales of Oct., Nov. and Dec. When that occured you could see they ( the workers) were really suffering. A 2 BR apt in this area runs about $1300.00, then they have utilities, groc., car, gas, ins. dr visits, school lunches, child care... What bothered me too was the expectation for productivity from the same workers doing the same job didn't change. They were expected to do the same job in 32 hours they'd done previously in 40 and even then they couldn't do it in 40. I was in the position where I could tell over zealous managers the facts of life, they weren't.

 

[DonTom]

teresting that gas and salary have increased pretty level through time. I was guessing that gas was to increase a lot more than salary because it certainly feels like gas prices are out of control.

IMO, we like to remember our old prices, but not our old wages.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Onyrlef]

Yes, I recall S&H green stamps- we used to get them with groceries, gas, etc. when I was younger. There were also plaid stamps and one or two others around, though not so commonly found.

My objection to Don's post was the misconception many people get with the use of the word "free" seemingly indicating no cost, rather than meaning "included at no extra cost." If it were truly "free" you wouldn't have to pay anything at all and could still get it.

Yep, that curbside delivery which is free, is paid for by the increased cost of every item bought in the store by every customer. There's no chance the salaries of the people pulling and then loading those orders is being absorbed by the corporation, ie., those customers doing their own shopping are subsidizing those who don't.

 

[John From Detroit]

But how much of that oil actually stays here? Oil companies get big bucks to export the oil to other countries. Out of the ground, through pipelines and into tanker ships. Very little overhead.

That is one of the points I try to make often.. Thanks for the support.

 

[Laura & Charles]

Interesting that gas and salary have increased pretty level through time. I was guessing that gas was to increase a lot more than salary…

I don’t understand that conclusion. Adjusted for inflation, gas price stayed level. Salary didn’t come anywhere near staying level, else I’d be worth millions, if not billions. Adjusted for inflation, your guess that “gas increased a lot more than salary” is correct.

 

[DonTom]

It seems to me that the biggest factor here is how poorly wages have kept up with cost of living. You could do the same analysis on the cost of healthcare as you did with housing and conclude healthcare is “the real problem”.

Sure ,some things do better than inflation some do worse. Inflation is just an average of all items.

Heath care as well as housing has gone way above the normal inflation rate. And it sure looks like housing is more than three times what it used to be even after adjusting for inflation.

If housing was at its normal inflation rate, we would be back where most would be living fine with only one person per house working. Like it was back in 1957.

IOW, they difference in housing costs would pay for a lot of gasoline at today's prices.

To do better than inflation, do what I did. Invest in a few houses to keep for a few years. But most of here are now too old to bother with such investments.

I cannot say I fully understand it myself as house values continue to raise in CA as people leave CA by large numbers. I don't think they have even slowed down, except for a little in San Francisco where the median home price now is only around 1.2 million. A drop of close to 5% in one year.

The median home price in CA is now $787,000.00.

But I will now check . . . .

CA housing is about 4.5% higher than last year.

But inflation was 5.4% during that time. So I guess it does sound about right.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Skookum]

That is one of the points I try to make often.. Thanks for the support.

What point are you trying to make?

 

[Onyrlef]

What point are you trying to make?

Let me try, if you want to build a pipeline from Canada to Houston it’s so gas will be cheaper for Americans. Oil companies in Houston are selling all the oil to China so gas costs Americans more. Neither is true but that’s not the point.

 

[John From Detroit]

Let me try, if you want to build a pipeline from Canada to Houston it’s so gas will be cheaper for Americans. Oil companies in Houston are selling all the oil to China so gas costs Americans more. Neither is true but that’s not the point.

That comes Close and is part of it
The Oil Companies raise the price of gas claiming it's because Mid East oil costs more... And first we import only a tiny (Single digit percentage) of our oil from the Mid-Est (most imported oil is Canadian) and 2nd. We ship more back to them than we import We Export fuel in far grerater amounts than we imprort from the Mid East..

Logically whateer they charge us we charge them back.. NOT EVERYONE.

 

[Onyrlef]

That comes Close and is part of it
The Oil Companies raise the price of gas claiming it's because Mid East oil costs more... And first we import only a tiny (Single digit percentage) of our oil from the Mid-Est (most imported oil is Canadian) and 2nd. We ship more back to them than we import We Export fuel in far grerater amounts than we imprort from the Mid East..

Logically whateer they charge us we charge them back.. NOT EVERYONE.

At the end of the day it's their oil, they aren't obligated to explain why they're raising the price anymore than the grocery store has to post an explanation each time milk goes up by a nickel. They raise the price because they can and the price goes down because they have no other choice.

 

[TheBar]

Gas seems expensive because we were spoiled. We were paying an average of $1.84 in April 2020 and the price of gas had been down for years before that.

I inherited oil royalties on 4 adjacent sections of property in OK in 2005. A lot of oil was produced at 9,000 feet but 50 years ago they were all vertical and produced 1/3 of what's possible today. We could not lease these properties for 16 years. My brother gave up and sold his shares for a pittance. Then in 2022 a bidding and drilling war started. Previously these new horizontal wells were limited to 10,000 feet deep. But our newest well was successfully drilled at 14,500.

Oil company geologists surveying our land say off the record the estimated US reserves is a fraction of our true oil reserves. On our land there are pools of oil at 9,000, 14,000, and 19,000 feet. As you go deeper the pools get 2-3x in size. Core drilling stops where the first oil is found at 9,000 feet. So only the shallowest small pools are counted as "proven" reserves. But seismic and gamma ray testing accurately show the "hidden" reserves.

The highest estimate of US oil reserves I've seen is 1.442 trillion barrels of oil. Interesting over the years those numbers were replaced by "American is running out of oil". But now that's being replaced by "the US has the largest reserves in the world". I say follow the money and it makes sense. If alt energy looks to be higher profit we are running out.

The oil reserves are causing a new OK land rush due to an undeveloped super basin extending up into Kansas. Plus due to the higher pressure the natural gas reserves are unbelievable.

 

[Onyrlef]

Gas seems expensive because we were spoiled. We were paying an average of $1.84 in April 2020 and the price of gas had been down for years before that.

I inherited oil royalties on 4 adjacent sections of property in OK in 2005. A lot of oil was produced at 9,000 feet but 50 years ago they were all vertical and produced 1/3 of what's possible today. We could not lease these properties for 16 years. My brother gave up and sold his shares for a pittance. Then in 2022 a bidding and drilling war started. Previously these new horizontal wells were limited to 10,000 feet deep. But our newest well was successfully drilled at 14,500.

Oil company geologists surveying our land say off the record the estimated US reserves is a fraction of our true oil reserves. On our land there are pools of oil at 9,000, 14,000, and 19,000 feet. As you go deeper the pools get 2-3x in size. Core drilling stops where the first oil is found at 9,000 feet. So only the shallowest small pools are counted as "proven" reserves. But seismic and gamma ray testing accurately show the "hidden" reserves.

The highest estimate of US oil reserves I've seen is 1.442 trillion barrels of oil. Interesting over the years those numbers were replaced by "American is running out of oil". But now that's being replaced by "the US has the largest reserves in the world". I say follow the money and it makes sense. If alt energy looks to be higher profit we are running out.

The oil reserves are causing a new OK land rush due to an undeveloped super basin extending up into Kansas. Plus due to the higher pressure the natural gas reserves are unbelievable.

We were paying $1.84 because no one was buying gas. Gold would sell for a nickel an ounce if no one wanted it.

 

[Skookum]

Yeah, that was cool, right? The price of oil went negative and Railroads became storage for tankers full of oil, and small producers had to cap their wells or go broke.

"Reserve" kind of depends on what kind of crude oil we're talking about, yes?

 

[Moho81]

I don’t understand that conclusion. Adjusted for inflation, gas price stayed level. Salary didn’t come anywhere near staying level, else I’d be worth millions, if not billions. Adjusted for inflation, your guess that “gas increased a lot more than salary” is correct.

Just going off Don's numbers. I didn't do my own math.

In 1957 regular gasoline cost 31 cents per gallon.

Adjusted for inflation, that will be $3.36 per gallon these days

The average gasoline price these days in all of the USA is $3.22.

In 1957 the average salary was $4,512.00 plus inflation of 984.3% is $48,923.616 in today's money.

A quick look on google says the average nation wide salary in 2023 was $59,428

1957 adjusted for inflation average gas price $3.36 per gallon. 2024 average gas price $3.22
1957 adjusted for inflation average salary $48,923. 2023 average salary $59,428

If the numbers are correct gas is cheaper and the average salary is more now than in 1957 after being adjusted for inflation.

There's a lot more out there that is uneven that makes it seem worse.

 

[Professor David]

What's missed in looking at the average mertics (i.e., salary and average rate of inflation) is that lower income folks (especially kids) are not doing so great compared to almost all developed countries. The US is near the bottom (America's Poor Are Worse Off Than Elsewhere - Confronting Poverty). Though, apparently, lower income people are doing better in the last few years. Also, the middle class has taken a big hit over the last several decades . Upper income folk are doing fantastic and gaining more and more wealth (The gaps in income between upper-income and middle- and lower-income households are rising, and the share held by middle-income households is falling). When poor (and I have been there), a person must decide whether to pay rent or buy food...or maybe put 2 bucks in the gas tank to get to work.