Generator clicks, won't turn over

[Mountaineer02]

I'm a newbie, just got a 1999 class C.  When I got it a couple weeks ago, the generator started, but had to hold the start button for a few seconds, while it turned over but would not fire.  On the third try, it would start and run.  And run fine.  Now when I hit the start button on the remote or at the generator, it just clicks.  Does not turn over, usually.  Problem seems to be progressing from slow to get started to now it just clicks.

I know very little, I was thinking Selonid or the starter.

Its a Onan Microquiet.  the generator has very few houirs on it.

Any ideas.

 

[Alaskansnowbirds]

.....Now when I hit the start button on the remote or at the generator, it just clicks.  Does not turn over......

Sounds like a dead battery. Have you checked your batteries. Some motor homes start the generator off the chassis battery and some start it off the house battery.

 

[Mountaineer02]

Thought that, but the battery level on the meter in the coach is fine. 
The house battery is less than a year old.  All lights are work and its hooked up to shore power with an adapter-dont have a full 30 amp set up at the house yet. 

 

[DonTom]

Thought that, but the battery level on the meter in the coach is fine. 
The house battery is less than a year old.  All lights are work and its hooked up to shore power with an adapter-dont have a full 30 amp set up at the house yet. 

Does your RV engine start okay? Your genny starter might be wired to the RV engine battery.

-Don- SSF, CA​

 

[Mountaineer02]

Starts right up-plenty of battery strengh on the chassis battery

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Weak or dead battery, or a corroded connection between the battery and the genset's starter.

 

[DonTom]

Starts right up-plenty of battery strengh on the chassis battery

When you attempt to start the generator and you're holding the switch in to start, does it only click once while held in or do you hear multiple fast clicking?

Fast multiple clicking means your voltage is only dropping when there's the load of the starter motor.

I am just trying to get some clues of what might be happening.

-Don- SF, CA​

 

[Mountaineer02]

When the problem started, I got one clunk sound and then nothing.   Occassionaly it would turn over, and start after a few seconds.  

This week, I get multiple fast clicks as long as I engage the start button.  Its as if it is not getting enough juice to turn over.

Thanks for the ideas!  This forum is great.  I don't have the correct tools to check voltages at the starter, but I know someone who does, going to have those things checked out today.

 

[DonTom]

When the problem started, I got one clunk sound and then nothing.   Occassionaly it would turn over, and start after a few seconds. 
This week, I get multiple fast clicks as long as I engage the start button.  Its as if it is not getting enough juice to turn over.

That really does sound like a bad battery, which is dropping under load. The relay engages, the voltage drops so the relay opens. Then it engages again because of the higher voltage when no load.  And the cycle repeats. 

Also the fact that it's getting worse and worse indicates a bad battery. I would not rule out a bad connection, but I would bet on a bad battery.

At this point, I would remove all the negative wires from the house battery and see if there's any difference. Then I would do the same to the chassis battery. Could there be a hidden third battery?

At least find out which battery the genny uses by the above method. And then we will go from there.

-Don- SF, CA​

 

[Clay L]

In some (many?)  cases the generator is started from the house battery.
On my coach if the house battery disconnect switch is in the disconnect position I  get enough power from somewhere to cause the genny starter to click multiple times but the genny won't turn over.

I have not traced the wires to see where the phantom power is coming from but it's there and it happens on at least some other Winnebago's so it appears to be normal.

ON EDIT:

Just realized that the "phantom voltage" is the converter voltage which doesn't supply enough current to start the genny.

 

[John From Detroit]

Two issues,  The first is the hard-first start.  This, believe it or not, is kind of normal

Instructions for my generator say to press and hold STOP button till the indicator lights.  This is supposed to prime the fuel system.. Alas, it only partially does the job.

What I found that works best is to "Tap" the start button, (Press for like 1/2 second) then sit back for like 10 seconds or more (20-30) and press to start.

The first tap turns on the electric fuel pump.. which has time to build up pressure in the line that way and fill the carb.

Now: The NO:Start

Three common causes One has a "b" part

1: Low battery: I see this has been covered
2A: Bad connection (dirty connection) or 2B: Bad solenoid, Also covered
3: Bad starter.

To test simply measure voltage at the solenoid in and out.

But odds are it's 2a, bad connection.  and I believe it's been covered.

 

[Mountaineer02]

I have found out so far today that when we put a charger on the house battery, we got enough to start it. 

But, the RV has been plugged on the house for days, using an adapter to plug into my house 110.  So is that not enough to keep the house battery charged?

Do I have a charging problem?

Do I need a second battery in parallel?  Dosen't look like the compartment was really made for more than one.  We believe the house battery is firing the generator-not the chassis battery, on this coach.

Going to plug it back into 110 and check the battery volts.

Thanks for all the great ideas-I might be getting somewhere.

 

[rsalhus]

But, the RV has been plugged on the house for days, using an adapter to plug into my house 110.  So is that not enough to keep the house battery charged?

Yes, it should be enough if you have a working charger/converter.  However, on some RVs, if you have the coach disconnect switch set to 'store' instead of 'use', you won't charge the coach batteries using the charger/converter when connected to shore power.  You should know that your converter does supply current to your 12V appliances (lights etc.) even when the coach battery is disconnected.  (In other words, having a 12V light on doesn't mean that the coach battery isn't disconnected.)

 

[Mountaineer02]

Checked the volts at the battery, was as low at 10 when I checked this morning, after coming off of shore power for 2-3 hours, and not using any power other than driving the coach 15 miles.

We put a charger on it, and the generator started up.

Waited 45 minutes, and the clicking started again with no turn over.

Checked the volts at the house battery, plugged into shore power and then disconnected, and there was a sharp drop in volts.  And did seem to charge when plugged in.

I going back to Walmart about a re-placement, were thinking I have a bad battery, even though I have a receipt showing it was put into service in February. 

What it does not explain, why it would not turn over, when on shore power at my house.  I am going to test the circuit at home to make sure it wasn't tripped at some time, and therefore not getting power at home--I'm kind of hoping that is the case.

 

[rsalhus]

Checked the volts at the battery, was as low at 10 when I checked this morning....

A reading of 10V is completely discharged.  If the battery is only 6 months old, I would think it should still be good.  It sounds like it will take a charge as evidenced by the fact that you were able to start the generator after you charged it awhile.  It sounds like something is draining the battery very fast, like maybe a 3-way refrigerator set to the 12V setting or something similar.  Have you checked to see what electric appliances are turned on?  Water heater maybe?

Checked the volts at the house battery, plugged into shore power and then disconnected, and there was a sharp drop in volts.  And did seem to charge when plugged in.

What was the voltage of the house battery when plugged into shore power?  What was it before and after you disconnected from shore power?  If the charger/converter is working and the battery disconnect switch is set to 'use', the voltage measured at the house battery (or at the output from the charger/converter) should be around 13.3V or higher.  And it should drop to about 12.6V when you disconnect from shore power assuming you have a fully charged lead acid battery and have depleted the static charge.

 

[Mountaineer02]

Refrig is completely off, though I have figured out why a fan turns on, runs for a while, at the bottom of the frid, when it is supposed to be off.  I checked no other appliances on. Gas stove and burner, hot water is gas and off and drained.  Water pump off and tank empty.

I have not heard of the shut off switch at the converter-in fact I'm sure I have even located the converter yet.  I will try and locate that.

Thanks for the repeared advice.

I unplugged the RV this morning, drove 15 miles, let it sit for 2 hours and then it read 10 volts.  We charged and was able start the generator.  It sat for and hour or so and dropped below 12, generator turned over and started.  I shut it off and tried again, it then clicked multiple fast time and would not turn over.

We then plugged in the shore line and it brought the voltage back up, so I think it charges,  Seems to disapaite quickly. I know it is a deep cell battery, maybe not the wrong type, or not strong enough...I don't know enough about them.

I am also going to check the water level in the battery..I have not done that.

 

[rsalhus]

Refrig is completely off, though I have figured out why a fan turns on, runs for a while, at the bottom of the frid, when it is supposed to be off.

That fan that comes on below your fridge, that is more than likely your charger/converter.  Open the door under there and take a look and tell us what kind it is.

 

[Mountaineer02]

Its a Magnatek Electronic 7300.  I flipped the breaker to the converter and the fan turned off.  I turned the breaker back on and the fan stayed off for now.  Does it come and off to cool the converter?

Also went to Walmart the battery tested as bad, they gave me a new replacement for free since I had the receipt.  Generator started right up.

It sometime pauses, then engages the starter.  Its not the smoothest starting machine.  But it started.  

I'm not completely convinced that the probem is solved.  I think it is going to start sometimes and others it will not.  I hope it has consistent voltage.

Thanks for the help.  I have learned that I need a voltmeter and learn how to use it.

The house power is fine and feeding the Rv just fine.

Any ideas of why the genny won't start/turnover when connected on shore power, I don't believe there is anything to prevent it from starting while on shore power?
Does the battery have to be in good shape to start it?

 

[Tom]

[quote author=Mountaineer02]Also went to Walmart the battery tested as bad[/quote]

There was a recent discussion here about WM battery tests.

 

[rsalhus]

Its a Magnatek Electronic 7300.  I flipped the breaker to the converter and the fan turned off.  I turned the breaker back on and the fan stayed off for now.  Does it come and off to cool the converter?

Yes, it comes on when the converter is hot and shuts off when it cools off.  But why is your converter hot?  The fan doesn't usually come on unless your are running a lot of 12V appliances (lights, fridge, furnace, water pump, etc.) or maybe in conjunction with the ambient temperature being very warm.  I would think the fan wouldn't ever come on if you aren't running any 12V appliances.  I still think you must have some phantom 12V load(s) that are running your coach battery down.

BTW, some folks in here don't think much of MagnaTek charger/converters.  Some of their early model charger/converters were known to overcharge (cook) batteries.  Ours is a late model MagnaTek (Model 950 Series 900, 50 amp) that has never overcharged our batteries.  Ours doesn't have and doesn't need a fan to keep it cool and has never been a problem, but the stigma from the early models will live on forever in some people's minds, I guess.

Any ideas of why the genny won't start/turnover when connected on shore power, I don't believe there is anything to prevent it from starting while on shore power?
Does the battery have to be in good shape to start it?

No, there is nothing to prevent it from starting on shore power.  I don't think you said how big or what type your generator is.  The bigger the generator, the harder it is to turn over.  We have two coach batteries to start our generator and when that isn't enough, we hit a button to add the two chassis batteries to help start it.  And I've done that more than once.  So yes, I would think you would need a good battery well charged to start your genny.  Also, you may have to prime your generator before starting, look in your manual for that information.