Hertz returning to gas

[Skookum]

See here.

"The Big Problem With Hertz's Used Teslas"​

-Don- Auburn, CA

So goes purchasing a used rental car.

What's the saying? Nothing goes faster than a borrowed car...

 

[LarsMac]

How many people that rent these actually have a way to charge them at home? Sure, they can take them to a charging station and site there for hours.

Good point, but then, when I rent a car, it's because I am NOT at home. I am usually on a business trip, or a short notice family trip.
In the current market, I just want a car that will get me around, and I don't want to have to provide anything more than keeping it fueled, so I can get around where I need to go. I'll worry about renting an electric car when there is no other choice.

 

[DonTom]

How many people that rent these actually have a way to charge them at home? Sure, they can take them to a charging station and site there for hours.

In Placerville the other day, I met a guy with a 2014 Tesla Model S at the Tesla Supercharging station. We BSed for a while. He says he never charges at home which I thought was weird at first.

Then he explained that model car gets free Supercharging for the life of the car. He purchased it used last year for less than 20K$ and he says it saves him around 4K$ per year in gasoline.

He only uses the superchargers, but that makes me wonder how much longer that ten-year-old battery will last. He said there has been no noticeable battery degradation so far.

At 250 KW charging, it only took a few minutes to fully charge his 60 KWH Model S battery. Far from "hours".

When new in year 2014, a new Tesla Model S costed 71K$.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Viajeros]

In Placerville the other day, I met a guy with a 2014 Tesla Model S at the Tesla Supercharging station. We BSed for a while. He says he never charges at home which I thought was weird at first.

Then he explained that model car gets free Supercharging for the life of the car. He purchased it used last year for less than 20K$ and he says it saves him around 4K$ per year in gasoline.

He only uses the superchargers, but that makes me wonder how much longer that ten-year-old battery will last. He said there has been no noticeable battery degradation so far.

At 250 KW charging, it only took a few minutes to fully charge his 60 KWH Model S battery. Far from "hours".

When new in year 2014, a new Tesla Model S costed 71K$.

-Don- Auburn, CA

The cab companies up here tend to run 2014 to 2017 model S’s with free supercharging. Many have north of 400,000 kilometres on their original batteries. Cash machines.

 

[Skookum]

At 250 KW charging, it only took a few minutes to fully charge his 60 KWH Model S battery. Far from "hours".

This is what I don't understand. People refuse to educate themselves on basic things. Even with EV's still in a relative era of infancy, achieving a nearly full charge within tens of minutes is completely possible and not hard to come by.

People take 10-20 minutes to pump their gas sometimes, they're so dang slow and inconsiderate of others. It's too bad charging them to sit at the pump while they go into the store or mess around on their phone never became a thing.

 

[Onyrlef]

In Placerville the other day, I met a guy with a 2014 Tesla Model S at the Tesla Supercharging station. We BSed for a while. He says he never charges at home which I thought was weird at first.

Then he explained that model car gets free Supercharging for the life of the car. He purchased it used last year for less than 20K$ and he says it saves him around 4K$ per year in gasoline.

He only uses the superchargers, but that makes me wonder how much longer that ten-year-old battery will last. He said there has been no noticeable battery degradation so far.

At 250 KW charging, it only took a few minutes to fully charge his 60 KWH Model S battery. Far from "hours".

When new in year 2014, a new Tesla Model S costed 71K$.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Regardless, people who rent cars aren't interested in EV gaslighting, they want to rent a car to get them from point A to point B. They aren't interested in renting a pita and that's exactly why they weren't being rented and why Hertz dumped them. The average ICE vehicle will burn a little above $20k in gas over a fifteen year lifespan, factor in the initial cost of an EV, charging, it's reduced resale value, higher maintence costs, intangible pita factor to include they ride like a chuckwagon, and the new $15,000 battery it will need before it reaches a 15 year lifespan and it's no contest.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Good point, but then, when I rent a car, it's because I am NOT at home. I am usually on a business trip, or a short notice family trip.
In the current market, I just want a car that will get me around, and I don't want to have to provide anything more than keeping it fueled, so I can get around where I need to go. I'll worry about renting an electric car when there is no other choice.

^^^That^^^

We have flown several times in the past 2 years, renting a car at our destinations, and I have yet to see an EV charger at any of the hotels we've stayed at. I have no clue where the closest charging station would have been.

Which brings up - even if the hotel had one I could use but then I have to move my vehicle to another parking spot when I'm done, I'm not interested. When I return from a day of sightseeing I want to pull into a spot in the hotel parking lot and not have to be moving the vehicle around. With an ICE vehicle, I am quite sure that many times during the day I passed a gas station where I could have zipped in, filled up in 5 minutes, and been back about my business. No, I am not willing to give a some convenience to save the planet.

 

[DonTom]

The cab companies up here tend to run 2014 to 2017 model S’s with free supercharging. Many have north of 400,000 kilometres on their original batteries. Cash machines.

Before two days ago, talking with the guy I met in Placerville, CA, I didn't even realize that some of the older Teslas came with free supercharging for the life of the car.

Mine came with six months free supercharging and I still only used it one time in that six months and that was just to see how it worked.

I almost never have a need to charge on the road in my Tesla or Chevy Bolt. But often on my electric motorcycles and most of that charging is free to me anyway, such as yesterday in Georgetown, CA.

Eastbound between here and Reno, my favorite charge stop is the Truckee, CA airport. By then, I need a break, even though I can make it all the way to Reno on a couple of my electric bikes without a charge stop.

As I am getting a free charge there, I can sit at a picnic table. Choice of sun or shade and watch the small planes land and take off from just a few feet in front of me. Also has restrooms, small restaurant and good coverage with my Hotspot for posting messages.


-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Lou Schneider]

High rate supercharging and full discharges are hard on the battery. As the article says, guess what usually happens to a rental car.

 

[Viajeros]

Regardless, people who rent cars aren't interested in EV gaslighting, they want to rent a car to get them from point A to point B. They aren't interested in renting a pita and that's exactly why they weren't being rented and why Hertz dumped them. The average ICE vehicle will burn a little above $20k in gas over a fifteen year lifespan, factor in the initial cost of an EV, charging, it's reduced resale value, higher maintence costs, intangible pita factor to include they ride like a chuckwagon, and the new $15,000 battery it will need before it reaches a 15 year lifespan and it's no contest.

Perspective I guess. We went from a Jeep grand Cherokee to a Tesla model Y. There was literally nothing better about the Jeep grand Cherokee. It was more expensive to buy, more expensive to operate and more expensive to maintain. It was also not near as comfortable or convenient in winter. Not near as good as traction or handling. It was a dog for towing and had no where near the horsepower or torque. The tech was old and dated and the sound system was a joke. In the summer If we sat at a ferry terminal waiting (sometimes 4 hours) we couldn’t leave the motor on for AC because it would overheat. In the tesla we stay cool and entertained watching Netflix on the screen.

To each his own I guess. There is an a$$ for every seat. But I would never go back to 20th century tech. Ugh.

 

[Lou Schneider]

Perspective I guess. We went from a Jeep grand Cherokee to a Tesla model Y. There was literally nothing better about the Jeep grand Cherokee. It was more expensive to buy, more expensive to operate and more expensive to maintain. It was also not near as comfortable or convenient in winter. Not near as good as traction or handling. It was a dog for towing and had no where near the horsepower or torque. The tech was old and dated and the sound system was a joke. In the summer If we sat at a ferry terminal waiting (sometimes 4 hours) we couldn’t leave the motor on for AC because it would overheat. In the tesla we stay cool and entertained watching Netflix on the screen.

To each his own I guess. There is an a$$ for every seat. But I would never go back to 20th century tech. Ugh.

I rented a new Jeep Compass and had the same opinion of it's tech and performance. Heck, the 25 year old radio and CD player in my 1999 Ford F350 works better than the Jeep's "sound system" and the manual controls for the cabin climate control system are easier to operate and more intuitive than the Jeep's. I do have to use my phone or laptop to watch Netflix, though.

 

[Onyrlef]

Perspective I guess. We went from a Jeep grand Cherokee to a Tesla model Y. There was literally nothing better about the Jeep grand Cherokee. It was more expensive to buy, more expensive to operate and more expensive to maintain. It was also not near as comfortable or convenient in winter. Not near as good as traction or handling. It was a dog for towing and had no where near the horsepower or torque. The tech was old and dated and the sound system was a joke. In the summer If we sat at a ferry terminal waiting (sometimes 4 hours) we couldn’t leave the motor on for AC because it would overheat. In the tesla we stay cool and entertained watching Netflix on the screen.

To each his own I guess. There is an a$$ for every seat. But I would never go back to 20th century tech. Ugh.

I guess I'm out of touch, never one time have I looked over at my wife while in the car and said " I wish we could get Netflix".

 

[Lou Schneider]

I guess I'm out of touch, never one time have I looked over at my wife while in the car and said " I wish we could get Netflix".

It is nice when you're waiting in line for 4 hours for one of those Canadian ferries.

 

[Skookum]

I guess I'm out of touch, never one time have I looked over at my wife while in the car and said " I wish we could get Netflix".

It's for us EV guys who need entertainment while waiting 17 hours for the car to charge at a charging station.

Or when sitting there after the EV runs out of juice during an unexpected 1600 mile road trip in -50 degree weather, without a map, while towing a boat that we didn't expect to have, waiting for a tow truck to show up.

 

[Viajeros]

I guess I'm out of touch, never one time have I looked over at my wife while in the car and said " I wish we could get Netflix".

I hear ya. But waiting four hours for a ferry in bad weather, it’s kind of nice to have the ability to watch a movie. Or the news or whatever.

Cheers.

 

[Viajeros]

It is nice when you're waiting in line for 4 hours for one of those Canadian ferries.

You would be surprised how often that happens. Usually because of bad weather or too many freakin tourists. . Longest wait we had was 6 hours ago 2 years ago. But we had the trailer in tow so I went for a nap. This is the Tsawwassen ferry crossing. You'll know when you see that sign. I think it was delayed because of high winds in the channel. We were on our way to Vancouver island for a month of camping.

 

[DonTom]

High rate supercharging and full discharges are hard on the battery. As the article says, guess what usually happens to a rental car.

From Windows Edge Auto-reply (be sure to read the links below):

Supercharging your Tesla frequently was once thought to accelerate battery degradation, but recent studies suggest otherwise. According to a study by Recurrent, there’s little to no difference in battery degradation between Teslas that fast charge more than 90% of the time and those that fast charge less than 10% of the time.

However, Tesla’s owner manual does mention that the peak charging rate of the battery may decrease slightly after a large number of DC Fast Charging sessions, such as those at Superchargers. Also, fast charging under extreme heat or extreme cold is not ideal for battery performance.

So, while frequent supercharging doesn’t seem to significantly affect the overall longevity of a Tesla’s battery, it’s still recommended to use Superchargers judiciously. It’s also important to note that every battery will degrade over time, regardless of how it’s charged. For instance, Tesla states that its vehicles lose only about 12% of their battery capacity after 200,000 miles.

Remember, the health and lifespan of EV batteries are continually improving, and the impact of supercharging on battery life is likely to be minimal. However, it’s always a good idea to follow the manufacturer’s guidelines for charging and maintaining your vehicle’s battery to ensure its longevity.

 

[DonTom]

High rate supercharging and full discharges are hard on the battery. As the article says, guess what usually happens to a rental car.

I was just thinking about that. I assume most of the charging done with rented EVs is done right there at the rental place, with 12 KW max. IOW, a slow AC charger like I have at each of my houses.

I don't think it is very often that an EV is rented to go more than a hundred miles or so. AFAIK, most rented for a day or two by businesspeople. Perhaps in the same town they rented from, and only for a day or two.

Many have a 300-mile range and will have no need to be recharged until it is returned.

Let me see if I can look it up.

Boy, was I close with my guess (and no, I really did NOT look it up in advance!).

Copilot:
"The average distance a rented car is driven per day can vary based on several factors such as the location, the purpose of the rental, and the rental company’s policies. However, according to a survey by Auto Rental News, a rented car is driven about 100 miles per day on average, assuming the car is on rent 25 days a month. Please note that this is an average figure and actual mileage may vary. For instance, another source mentions a sample mean travel distance per day of 85.5 kilometers (approximately 53 miles) for a random sample of 20 cars rented in a city. It’s always a good idea to check the terms of your rental agreement for any mileage restrictions or charges.

And not only that, but it is also getting more common for motels to have slow AC charge station in their parking lots. Many can return the car with a full overnight charge from their motel.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Onyrlef]

From Windows Edge Auto-reply (be sure to read the links below):

Supercharging your Tesla frequently was once thought to accelerate battery degradation, but recent studies suggest otherwise. According to a study by Recurrent, there’s little to no difference in battery degradation between Teslas that fast charge more than 90% of the time and those that fast charge less than 10% of the time.

However, Tesla’s owner manual does mention that the peak charging rate of the battery may decrease slightly after a large number of DC Fast Charging sessions, such as those at Superchargers. Also, fast charging under extreme heat or extreme cold is not ideal for battery performance.

So, while frequent supercharging doesn’t seem to significantly affect the overall longevity of a Tesla’s battery, it’s still recommended to use Superchargers judiciously. It’s also important to note that every battery will degrade over time, regardless of how it’s charged. For instance, Tesla states that its vehicles lose only about 12% of their battery capacity after 200,000 miles.

Remember, the health and lifespan of EV batteries are continually improving, and the impact of supercharging on battery life is likely to be minimal. However, it’s always a good idea to follow the manufacturer’s guidelines for charging and maintaining your vehicle’s battery to ensure its longevity.

" Why EV's could not be, maybe, perhaps, sometimes, don't seem to be, studies might indicate, otherwise, who really knows, likely to be, but" published by Gaslight Press.
Otherwise, if Tesla say's superchargers don't "seem" to significantly affect the long term longevity of a Tesla battery, but it still recommends operators should use superchargers judiciously, then apparently Tesla doesn't know, or doesn't want to say. And what does "judiciously" mean, other than it's intentionally ambiguous, evasive, use.

 

[LarsMac]

I may have understated my take on EV rental cars.
I would likely consider renting an EV, if I am going on a relatively long term trip. It would allow me to get to know the thing, and how EVs work. My objection was more to the idea that the Rental agency might just hand me an EV without knowing that was what I was going to get.
(My last couple or so years at work, the company changed their travel policy so that when you requested a rental car on a trip. the travel agency decided which rental company, and what car you would get when you arrived at your destination. That did not work out well, IMHO)

I'm planning a short solo trip back east, next month, and decided to fly in and rent a car, since I am going alone. I decided that might be the perfect opportunity to get familiar with one of the little beasties.