We are having the most difficult time finding a fifth wheel.

[Frizlefrak]

Frizle, if I recall, when we bought the ram, the sales guy said the towing on the 2500 and 3500 (non dually) were not much different. Did I dream that?

Again, you're awesome. Thank you!

There isn't a huge difference in towing between the 2500 and 3500 crew cab Cummins with the 68RFE automatic transmission....but there is a HUGE difference in the payload rating (ie, the amount of weight the truck can carry, including the weight of the truck itself).  Step up into the dually, and the difference gets even bigger.  Payload is critcial with a fifth wheel much more than a conventional trailer.  A "bumper pull" trailer puts about 10-12% of it's weight on the rear axle of the truck.  A fifth wheel it's about 22-25% of it's weight.  So a 15,000 lb fiver may have a pin weight of 3750 lbs on the truck's rear axle.

Where the 3500 dually really shines is with the Cummins and the Aisin automatic....it can be configured to tow up to 30,000 lbs. 

To be clear....The 2500 and 3500 both have the power to tow literally anything you could hook to them....it's payload that's the limiting factor.

 

[steveblonde]

I'm jumping in  ;D i have a a Voltage 3305, yes the rear beds are comfortable, but not that great, on the top we use a std queen mattress that we took out of the master bedroom and put a memory foam on top, and bought a new mattress for home and took the home mattress and put it in the bedroom. On the bottom bed we use a foamy because there are creases where it folds up into the bench

NOW the million dollar question

weights  you do TECHNICALLY  need a 1 ton/3500.

my 3305 - pin 2800 lbs my truck cargo capacity is 4125 (2013 Chevy 3500 std box single rear wheel Firestone Airbags with on board compressor and wireless remote) which leaves me a 1325lbs for me the dogs the wife the hitch etc which combined is well under 800 lbs hitch alone is 250lbs so I'm pushing it but not over it I'm still legal. Look at the little decal on the drivers side door jam, that tells you you weight capacities by vehicle.

NOW the grey stuff.

because a 1ton 3500 and a 3/4 ton 2500 are essentially the same truck in that they have the same motor,trans,rear end, and frame (Dodge 3500 Dually is in a class of its own with diff tranny and rear end) with the only difference being a spring giving you a higher payload - a LOT of people with 2500s add supersprings or air bags and tow large 5Er's. TECHNICALLY its not legal but allot of people do it. Go to a race track some time walk around and look see who is pulling what with what. A ton of motorcross riders pull toy haulers with 2500's with air bags. By the time you actually load up a toy hauler pin weight doesn't change much as they are front heavy from the factory  and designed so that the weight capacity is behind the rear wheels  unlike a traditional 5er  that has huge storage bins in front of the axles.

That 3895 is a big unit 42 ft 3 axles i wouldn't personally pull it without having a dually look at other models in that line im very happy with my Voltage. 

Frizzle is on the money for sure its not towing its capacity that's your enemy here.

To Happy - i cut my teeth towing a Pop-up to San Diego and back @14 years of age in our 1975 Country Squire in 1976.  ;D My dad got a ticket in Wash State and asked if wanted to drive hell i was 14 of course i said yes ;D 5000 mile round trip i learnt in a hurry how to pull a little trailer

 

[steveblonde]

on a side note keep looking for that trailer there are models out there made for families with bunks etc - you may/will have to swap out the mattresses Toy Haulers are heavier that std 5Er's because typically they have higher cargo capacities and heavier axles than your standard 5er, but i have seen bunk house models with 4 bunks in the rear.

 

[SeilerBird]

Unfortunately RV salesmen would lie to their own mother to sell an RV. Lots of beginners visit an RV lot and get a lot of BS from salesmen and go away thinking their truck can pull anything. The problem is not the ability to pull something, it is the ability to stop pulling it and handling long steep grades and to be safe doing it. By the time you figure out the salesman was lying it is way too late.

You are getting lots of good opinions here. RVs are not designed to haul around lots of people. Most are designed for two people, maybe four at the most. Once you get more than that you run into problems. The first problem is sleeping space, the second is space for all your stuff. Every person is going to be bringing their clothes, computers, phones, chargers and other stuff. This all takes up space and adds weight.

The big problem though is holding tanks capacity. You get eight people taking showers and you run out of water and waste tank room very quickly meaning you must either be hooked up to shore utilities or you must be visiting the dump station frequently. You do not have infinite room in an RV.

 

[HappyWanderer]

Sadly, the girls are high maintenance.  No tent camping. They don't even like the bunkhouse in the travel trailer.

Not to worry, in two years you won't be able to drag them on a camping trip.

 

[Jen2016]

Hi guys. Not trying to beat a dead horse- just still learning. The RV above is not the one we are looking at. Seiler was just trying to be helpful and posted a link of a toy hauler he thought might interest us. It's the Thunderbolt 380Amp that we are looking at. It's not a triple axle and it has a pin weight of 2323.

http://forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=201&Image=5378

Still no good?

Appreciate you!

 

[steveblonde]

Hi guys. Not trying to beat a dead horse- just still learning. The RV above is not the one we are looking at. Seiler was just trying to be helpful and posted a link of a toy hauler he thought might interest us. It's the Thunderbolt 380Amp that we are looking at. It's not a triple axle and it has a pin weight of 2323.

http://forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=201&Image=5378

Still no good?

Appreciate you!

you not beating a dead horse - ask all the questions you need

what is your truck i know its a 2016 Dodge 4x4? quad cab ? crew? long or short box? trim level - alll of those things make a difference? payload can vary from 1800lbs to 3900lbs

look on the drivers side door jam there is a little yellow decal it will tell you cargo carrying capacity YOU NEED THAT NUMBER once you have it please post back and i can help you
cheers steve

 

[Jen2016]

Thanks Steve- sorry that took so long. Internet issues. I so appreciate the help. I also have the vehicle sticker if you need that. I was mistaken. It's a 2015. Attached is the door sticker.

 

[Jen2016]

Of course it attached it upside down. This isn't my week

 

[steveblonde]

no wrong one - the one you want is Yellow and its usually found on the drivers side door pillar between the front drivers door and the back door - you may have to open both door on the drivers side to see it and it will be worded something like "VEHICLE CARGO CAPACITY MUST NOT EXCEED **** LBS"

good luck

 

[Jen2016]

Truck sticker just in case that helps.

 

[Jen2016]

I am so sorry. Now I am an even bigger idiot. Okay it says combined weight is 2100 lbs.

 

[steveblonde]

if thats the yellow sticker that says combined weight of 2100 that means you hubby kids hitch etc cannot exceed 2100 lbs including the pin weight of the 5er that seems really low please can you confirm its the YELLOW decal are you able to post me a pic please?
thanks steve

 

[steveblonde]

working back wards i found the towing chart

https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2015_ram_2500_towing_charts.pdf

page 2 of 8 says payload 2360lbs and towing of 17180lbs (individual trucks vary which is why yours says 2100)

now the bad news and sorry to tell you but at 2100 lbs add your weight, hubbies weight ,kids weight,250lbs for the hitch and any other cargo and that what you would have left over for a pin weight capability
so to simplify hubby 200 +you 200+kids 200+hitch 250 = 850lbs which would leave a pin weight max of 1250lbs
check this site out  http://www.towingplanner.com/Calculators/TowingPayloadEstimate/?ccc=2100&dw=235&pw=165&hw=250&bd=125&ct=FW


unfortunately you do not have the correct truck to pull that or any other family size 5er its the cargo capacity that's killing you

 

[Jen2016]

Hi Steve. How depressing. Going to lose money on a truck now, too. Now that we need a new truck, which is a better set up for what we need- Ford or Dodge? And what exactly should I look for?

The learning curve on this is REALLY expensive

Yep, sticker was correct. I've attached it.

PS. Husband is on the phone with the sales guy saying we aren't coming in today (we said we would come back today) and I hear him saying "No, Bob, I don't think airbags are the answer."

 

[Frizlefrak]

because a 1ton 3500 and a 3/4 ton 2500 are essentially the same truck in that they have the same motor,trans,rear end, and frame (Dodge 3500 Dually is in a class of its own with diff tranny and rear end) with the only difference being a spring giving you a higher payload - a LOT of people with 2500s add supersprings or air bags and tow large 5Er's. TECHNICALLY its not legal but allot of people do it. Go to a race track some time walk around and look see who is pulling what with what.

I knew my Cummin(g)s loving Canadian brutha would chime in sooner or later 

The main difference in 2500 vs 3500 as he states is rear springs.  The 2500's have progressive coil springs instead of leaf springs.  Gives the 2500 a better initial ride without a load than the 3500, which when empty is like riding a mechanical bull around town.  Unfortunately, everything in life is a series of compromises....and to get that softer ride, you're giving up payload.  Honestly (and I own one of these trucks) I would cut off fifth wheel weight at about 10,000 lbs loaded....and I wouldn't try to add stuff to make it tow more. 

As Seilerbird mentioned, this isn't an issues of being able to move the trailer....it's an issue of being able to CONTROL the trailer...especially if something goes wrong.  What happens if the trailer experiences a blowout?  A sudden 30+ MPH crosswind?  (Been there, done that, not fun).  How about losing your trailer brakes coming down a long steep grade (a blown fuse from reality).  This is where having enough truck to safely handle the load is critical, and why I'm a lieutenant in the "Weight Police".  I tow in the mountains just about 100% of the time....and there is no room for error.  Undersized trucks + 10,000' elevations and 10% grades = potential disaster.  I've seen it happen, and it isn't pretty.  Not trying to scare poor Jennifer....but I don't want her family endangered either just because some slick salesman convinces her "you can pull anything on the lot....you have a diesel!!!"  He's technically right....your diesel CAN pull anything on the lot...but not necessarily safely.

 

[Frizlefrak]

Hi Steve. How depressing. Going to lose money on a truck now, too. Now that we need a new truck, which is a better set up for what we need- Ford or Dodge? And what exactly should I look for?

The learning curve on this is REALLY expensive

Yep, sticker was correct. I've attached it.

PS. Husband is on the phone with the sales guy saying we aren't coming in today (we said we would come back today) and I hear him saying "No, Bob, I don't think airbags are the answer."

Ford or Dodge (Ram)?  Any of the big three 3500's will do the job nicely.  Drive all three, decide which you like the best.  And again...see if you can find a leftover brand new 2015 truck....the deals will start happening on the leftover stuff, and you could drive away with a decent deal.  Do get a dually though....and carefully check both tow and PAYLOAD ratings before you bring one home.  Take your phone with you and post what you're contemplating buying on this forum, and we can help you out on the fly so to speak.

I'm sorry the learning curve has been so steep (expensive) for you....but I'd rather see that than something bad to happen out on the road.  Safety for the loved ones comes first, always. 

 

[Jen2016]

I know I keep thanking you..and it's so heartfelt. In the end, you will save me money and heartache. I just read a story on a Dodge forum of a guy who was driving his truck, towing his RV and the RV wrecked and rolled over. Sadly, a lady got killed. Because he was towing more weight than allowed, the insurance company will not pay. I can't even imagine.

Just a random thought- since we are going to lose money on the truck (and the camper). Would you ever recommend getting a Class A motorhome? Or is $100k on wheels a bad deal?

THANK YOU!

 

[steveblonde]

i too am sorry that your having such an expensive lesson. all three Chevy Ford and Ram ( Dodge has dropped the Dodge part and now their trucks are in their own division RAM  : will do the job given that you have 3 kids and will go big i'm sure, yes a dually, however, and i mean this in the kindest way don't buy a Ford only because the body style and truck is changing for 2017 and traditionally the last year of a production run looses its value faster and harder than any other year. That is unless you get a 2017 F350 which hasn't been built yet. We all prefer different brands for different reasons, and all three are good. I'm a Chevy guy when it suits me.

The problem with a class A is most are not family friendly and you need to tow a car/truck for when you get to your destination a large toy hauler will give you more room, more comfort,and more flexabilty.

 

[steveblonde]

AIR BAGS only level out the ride - they do not change the weight rating PERIOD. sorry i cannot stress that enough they are not the answer and frankly if he (salesman) tells you they are - you need a new dealership because obviously this one is not teaching their salespeople correctly.

there is some good info on this forum and some helpful people including my little Mustache buddy from Texas (personally i think he may be compensating for something - little guy, big mustache, DODGE Dually ) )kidding kidding kidding
please feel free to reach out and ask the questions BEFORE you buy - knowing now what you know - look at the trailer first and decide what you want - then given the info you have on THAT unit compare it to the truck most all the duallys will work with whatever you buy but Ford and Ram also steps thing up with a 5500 series if you end up going really big