Am I Being Unreasonable ?

[Jim Dick]

Paul,

I know you want to get out of there as quickly as possible but I agree with Ron. Once you are gone it might take longer to find someone to do the job than having to stay another day or two. Sounds to me like they are trying to get you out of there.

I'd also be very leery about having some other company install a new windshield. If something happens on the road because of poor installation you just might have to return to that company. Also, you may have to wait several days for the windshield to arrive.  If your travels are taking you anywhere near the service center, I'd schedule an appointment there to complete all of these items. You'll be much happier.

 

[Tom]

If your travels are taking you anywhere near the service center, I'd schedule an appointment there to complete all of these items. You'll be much happier.

Jim, just for clarification for Paul, you're talking about the factory service center and, from my experience, albeit with another brand, I'd have to agree 100%.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Paul,
If your motorhome is insured in Florida, you can have the windshield repaired or replaced under your insurance at no cost to you. There is no deductible or co-pay for windshield damage under policies written in Florida. That assumes the damage is something that could be reasonably claimed to be from a road hazard or accident and not a stress crack or other purely manufacturing defect.

But LD should be able to arrange payment directly to a glass shop or, better yet, a company that specializes in motorhome windshields. There are several in Florida that travel around to wherever you are and repair or replace windshields on the spot.

 

[UK-RV]

Hi Guys

We've decided to take your advice and stay at Lazydays another night or two.

Whilst I can't wait to get away from the place, having spent several days each week here since we landed in the US 5 weeks ago, it "should" be less hassle than having to forward-plan these outstanding items whilst on the road.

As the north of Florida still seems to be covered in bad weather, there isn't much to lose by staying put - we can spend today driving to some dealerships trying to sort out a car purchase.

Paul

 

[Ron]

Paul ends up leaving Lazy Days and the work is NOT completed then I suspect it will be even more difficult getting the work accomplished elsewhere ?unless Paul can visit a Fleetwood service center. ?IMHO after all that has been said here and the length of time it has been since Paul's delivery at Lazy Days if the work is not done when he departs this will have shown how much Lazy Days really care about their customer, their reputation, and their integrity. ? I cannot say that I would not recommend Lazy Days again in the future but The recommendation I would give would be no better than the recommendation I give that outfit near the Camping World in Tucson. ?In other words the recommendation I would give would be much less than favorable.

Since I was one who recommended Lazy Days to Paul, based on my own experience, and if Paul ends up leaving without the work 100% completed, I feel it my responsibility to let Lazy Days know just how disappointed I am in their performance in taking care of a customer to whom I recommended Lazy Days . ?I will do this by writting a letter to the upper management at Lazy Days with copies to Fleetwood American Coach, Country Coach, and Monaco. ?Am I disappointed in Lazy Days performance You bet I am and a copy of this post will also be copied to my friend Ken Ware via E-mail.

 

[Mike Goad]

As one who is planning to buy sometime within the next 18 months, and a newcomer to this forum, this thread has been eye-opening one for me.  It certainly was on my mind when I had the opportunity yesterday to talk with a fellow by the name of Leif Freehafer, a district sales manager for Sprinter (by Keystone).  We'll be considering one of their travel trailers and Paul's situation was certainly on my mind when I asked about Keystone's support relationship with Outdoor Living Center in Russellville, Arkansas if there is a problem with one of their customer's RVs.  In fact I specifically mentioned this situation to him and when he asked for details, I'm ashamed to say that I could not remember specifics.

One thing I am impressed with is what a great support organization this forum is ? and this thread is a great example of it.  Unless we completely change our mind on what we plan to do ? and since we've been looking forward to it for 20 years, I doubt it ? I'll be a regular visitor and, where I can, contributor.

 

[Rollie]

Paul

If you have the dealer send you a "Cashier's cheque", you can walk into any bank and cash it without having an account.

Tom,
Sorry, but that may not be the case anymore.  If they cash it there may also be a charge ... can be 2% or 3% of the amount of the check.  The problem is there is a bunch of counterfit Cashier's Checks being passed and the bank's are being very cautious, especially with non-customers.
Rollie

 

[Woody]

Tom,
Sorry, but that may not be the case anymore.? If they cash it there may also be a charge ... can be 2% or 3% of the amount of the check.? The problem is there is a bunch of counterfit Cashier's Checks being passed and the bank's are being very cautious, especially with non-customers.
Rollie

This was true even a few years ago. When I traveled to southern Illinois to pay an private individual for my coach her bank wouldn't accept the Cashiers Check until they had talked to my bank in Indianapolis.

Woody

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the correction Rollie. It's been quite a few years since I cashed a cashier's check.

 

[Ron]

One thing I am impressed with is what a great support organization this forum is ? and this thread is a great example of it.? Unless we completely change our mind on what we plan to do ? and since we've been looking forward to it for 20 years, I doubt it ? I'll be a regular visitor and, where I can, contributor.

Thanks,  The Framily all are willing to help and share their knowledge and experience.  It is a great group.

 

[PancakeBill]

Looking forward to Weds this week, my day off and first day back to warm temps.  Yeehaa...  In the meantime, hoping that Paul has his concerns finnished up, that he leaves feeling a bit better. 

One thing I have to pass along, we need the manufacturers to be held to task.  The customer should not have to be the QC engineer, the dealer should not have to be the QC engner, there ought to be some better controls back at the factory.  For the factory delivery folks, was everything perfect?  Granted you are at the factory, nobody to worry about passing a buck, nobody to consider on how it was assembled, other than the assembler. 

Dealers do not build these coaches, we get them in and try to get them right, all while trying to keep the process running efficiently.  Not always an easy task.  Kind of like shoveling against the tide. 

Our guys work hard to make things right, but things slip past them, sometimes more than other times, but we do what we can to get things corrected.  As to warranty approval?  I haven't had to deal with that yet, but common sense has to prevail, and we all know that the common in common sense is not always common. 

I had a wonderful delivery over the weekend, and while there were 2 small issues that had to be fixed, we got them done, customer satayed happy, and we finished up wonderfully.  I just wish he could post here as one of our satisfied customers. 

 

[Ron]

Granted the manufacturers could and should be doing a better job. The dealers are the first ones that should be holding the manufacturers to task.  However, IMHO the dealer basically accepted the coach and with that the responsibility to insure the product is properly inspected and ready to be delivered.  The dealer has some standard as to what they will try to sell to the customer.  If this standard is high then the dealer would refuse coaches from the manufacturer that does not meet this standard or accepts the responsibility to bring the product up to this standard.  The lower the standard the more defective products will be delivered to the customer.  It doesn't appear to me that in this case the standard was very high.

In Paul's case Lazy Days accepted the coach. As I understand it Lazy days service personnel marked some things as completed, such as the defective windshield, as being corrected when in fact they were not. Theres that pile of rocks to kick again as far as I concerned.  In the case of the windshield I think ample time has passed that it should have been taken care of instead of Paul having to stick around longer.  If I was the Service Manager anybody that lied about something being accomplished when it was not would be GONE or at minimum put on probation.  Kicking that pile of rocks. 

Bottom line if the Dealer accepts the coach as is, even though a high number discrepancies exist then the dealer has accepted the responsibility to correct the discrepancies BEFORE delivering the product to the customer.  I am not making any excuses for the manufacturer but once accepted the responsibility becomes the dealers.  Take the windshield for example if the windshield was damaged when the coach was delivered then before the coach was even shown to a prospective customer that should have been corrected.

Like I said before what I expect in a dealer is Honesty complete honesty in every department.

Personally I think that it should be required that any dealer should, at the option of the customer, be required to give a full refund plus 25% should they present a coach for delivery on which all promised corrections, repairs, modifications  have not been completed without prior approval from the customer.  Boy wouldn't that make a major improvement in the RV industry.

 

[Tom]

Bill,

Glad to hear you had a successful delivery over the weekend.

You're right when you say that the factory has to build the RV right in the first place. But, unless dealers and customers put pressure on manufacturers to do that, it's not going to happen. Since dealers are effectively a "large customer", it would seem that they'd have a lot more clout with manufacturers than an individual retail customer. What pressure are dealers applying to the manufacturers to get it right?

Reading some of the comments here, it would appear that dealers have a financial incentive (aka payment for warranty work) for things to stay as they are. Also from comments I've read, it would appear that some of the problems are created after delivery to the dealership.

One of the complaints that I've read repeatedly is that, irrespective where a defect occurred, after a dealer has committed to fixing something in a given time, it either doesn't happen or doesn't happen in the promised time. That's not the manufacturer's fault although, in one situation, I called a manufacturer and told them to get their dealer to shape up. Things finally happened in a hurry when I wrote a letter to the CEO of the manufacturer.

 

[Tom]

The dealers are the first ones that should be holding the manufacturers to task

Ron, you and I were both typing our replies concurrently and had no idea the other was saying exactly the same thing! You beat me to the Post button.

 

[PancakeBill]

Ron
Refund + 25%... ?and color of the sky in that world? ? ?I supose that would raise the level of condiition, but it would also raise the price. ?It would also something that would likely need to be arbitrated, can you imagine the line-up of folks ready to take advantage of that? ?Heck, I would quit sales and start buying, with very high expectations! ?

All in all, and in each case, the best way to insure a trouble free delivery is to keep things in perspective, keep a cool head, write things down. ?That is what I expect in my transactions. ?This is how I behave. ?I am speaking in generalities here, not to imply anything to the current situation. ?However, I know people from past experience outside of here that felt that top volume and attitude at the first sign of anything amiss. ?He felt it got him quick service. ?Might do that, but sure does not earn any respect. ?

My attitude is to treat a customer as I would want to be treated and to act as a customer as I would prefer my customers to act. ?In all things moderation. ?Even Moderation.

 

[PancakeBill]

There are things that happen on the lot, either by the folks roaming, or clumsy service person.  never really know, and I do know we try to get all that stuff taken care of.  It is our responsibility, and we take it seriously.  Current case not withstanding, we do a good job.  Not perfect, but I think on the whole, we will match up and exceed any other dealer in the country.  Take a perfect case, or an imperfect case, comparing numbers and percentages, we still come out on top.  Sure there will be a situation where it seems everything will go wrong, but there is a majority where they go right.  Just hear more about the wrong things.  Nature of the beast. 

 

[Tom]

Just hear more about the wrong things.

That's almost 100% right Bill and a fact of life when dealing with customers. I say "almost", because I know at least one of the respondents in this topic actually goes out of his way to publicly recognize things that go right. I've even witnessed him doing this first hand; He did it personally and with the participation of the owner/manager of the outfit. I and others have also posted numerous comments here in the forum praising things that went right, so maybe that percentage is much less than 100%.

BTW my comment in my prior message about writing to the CEO of a manufacturer was after 6 months of almost daily conversations with the dealer and/or the manufacturer. Hopefully, nobody thinks I wasn't being patient with the dealer and giving him every opportunity to get things right before "going over his head". What catalyzed me to write the letter was receiving a "customer satisfaction survey" with a boilerplate letter from the CEO and a different return address. After filling out the survey honestly, I read it and told myself it didn't reflect what I'd gone through the prior 6 months.

 

[Woody]

After reading all of this discussion I had occasion to talk with a very good friend of mine that is an RV salesman this weekend. He was a car saleman for years but has been selling RV's for a medium size dealer in the greater Indy area for the past ten.
On the condition of anonymity he admitted that many of the things that have been said here are all too true. The dealer is pressured by the factory to accept a certain number of vehicles of various sizes to keep his license with them. He can only refuse delivery for major problems. That said, there is a strong incentive to accept the vehicle and then repair it at the dealership and bill the factory. The factory prefers this because it is actually cheaper for them to let the dealer repair it than it is for them to implement proper QC procedures and repair at the factory, interrupting the flow from the assembly line.
He said he, and other salesman, are constantly complaining about these procedures but that is the way it is. FWIW his dealership accepts a deposit, does the paperwork and walk-thru, but does not require full payment until all problems found in the walk-thru are repaired.

Woody

 

[Tom]

FWIW his dealership accepts a deposit, does the paperwork and walk-thru, but does not require full payment until all problems found in the walk-thru are repaired.

That sounds like the way it should be Woody, although all too often it's not. Thanks for sharing the story.

 

[Ron]

Obviously we are thinking along the same lines. ;D