Coax A/B Switches & Diplexers that will pass HD

[Mr_Bill]

I'm doing some work on my satellite system in the coach and need to find diplexers that will work with HD signals. This will allow me to run the satellite signal and the OTA signal on the same coax. They need to have one side that passes the powered satellite signal. All the ones I have tested so far, kill the HD signal - not enough bandwidth. In each case the seller has assured me that they work with HD signals. Would like to see if anyone out there has experience with one that works.

I am also setting up so I can have a tripod dish setup to use when we can't get a clear view of the Southern sky. I need high quality A/B switches for switching sources. Again, does anyone have a recommendation?

Thanks for any input you may provide!

 

[John From Detroit]

First it would be nice to know if you are using DISH or DirecHDTV.    Dish should pass with a regular diplexer and/or switch

For switches I normally use something like the RCA VH71 .. It should not care much about bandwidth, 

The problem is DirecTV uses two satellite bands and does some fancy dual conversion stuff and that may be where you are running into problems.. I'm not all that good on the dual band DIREC stuff. 

I see you posted this in another forum as well... Try Bill Adams of Internet Everwhere., He does both internet and Satellite TV and frankly knows his stuff.. I THOUGHT he belonged to the other forum you posted in but a search does not find any posts by him.. but I may need to search differently.

 

[Jeff]

Try SolidSignal.com. Different satellites need different frequency ranges but they will help you out.

 

[Mr_Bill]

Sorry about that!  Didn't realize that Dish And DirecTV were different like that.  I use DirecTV.  There may not be a diplexer that works for them.  I am prepared to run cable, if I must.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[John From Detroit]

Yup, DISHnetwork (Both HD and SD) and DirecTV (Sd only) are, as I recall the KU band. (Means just under the K band frequency wise)  DirecHDTV (Just the HD part) is KA band (Above the K band)

Thus you need a "B Band Converter" with the DirecTV HD.

I suspect that is where the problem lies.. Either the KA band is beyond the passband or something with the B Band converter is messing up.

NOW: a few questions.. You said you wanted to run both OTA and Sat over same cable.. Do you use just one cable for Sat (From teh dish to the receiver) Or are you trying to feed a 2nd receiver in another part of the rig?

The DirecHDTV installs I"ve seen ran multiple cables into the Motor home or trailer

You would simply put the diplexer ONLY on the SD cable (The cable for the center LNB)

 

[Weewun]

Since you are using Direct TV make sure the B-Band converter is ahead of the Diplexers.  When I did my MH, the MotoSAT Dish on the roof has 4 outputs.  I dedicated one to the Nomad SD Converter.  One lead comes to the B-Band Converter on the front HD Rcvr and the HDMI output goes to the HDMI input of the front TV.  The Video Switch is not involved.
 
For my Rear TV,
1.  I connected the input side of the B-Band Converter directly to the Input COAX from the Satellite Dish.
2. Connected the output of the B-Band Converter to the Sat input of a Diplexer.
3. Disconnected the Cable running to the Rear TV from the Video Switch and connected it to the output of the Diplexer.
4. Built a short RG-6 COAX jumper and connected it between the Video Switch Rear TV Output and Cable input of the Diplexer.
5. Disconnected the COAX from the Rear TV and connected it to the output of another Diplexer.
6. Built another short RG-6 Jumper COAX and connected it between the Cable input of the Diplexer and the Rear TV.
7. Built one more RG-6 jumper and connected between Satellite input of the HD RCV and the Sat input of the Diplexer.
8. Connected the HDMI cable from the output of the Rcvr to the HDMI input on the Rear TV.

While I did have to build some Coax Jumpers I did not have to run a cable from the front to the back.  I bought the Diplexers at Radio Shack and they work great (picture quality front and rear are the same.  It is imperative that the B-Band Converter be between the Dish and the first Diplexer.  The Video switch does not come into play with Satellite as it is controlled by the input setting of the TV. 

The fourth input from the Dish is for the Basement and I will do the same process for it.

 

[Weewun]

Follow-up:  The MotoSat installer said it couldnt be done and wanted to run another cable from front to rear across the roof.  My Rear TV is in a Slide so the cable would have come down in the room and then be routed to the TV cabinet.  As I said the above process works great for me for the past year and I used the existing cable for the long run and I will do the Basement someday.

The above process sounds more difficult than it is, but if you want to talk about it let me know.  My email is in my Profile.

I don't remember the exact labeling of the Diplexers but in the front you are going from two cables to one cable and in the R you are going from one to two, the Diplexers are bi-directional and you will need two.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Walt,
Others cannot view the email address in your profile - it is not public info unless you make it so. Check the box "Allow others to email me" in Account Settings if you wish to make it public. An "email" icon will appear by you avatar when you do this.

 

[Ned]

Also, even if you do allow the email link to be public, it won't expose your email address.  Clicking on the email icon will open a form to compose the email, but it will be sent by the forum without the sender ever seeing your email address.

 

[Mr_Bill]

Appreciate the feedback.  I?ve attached a diagram of what I am trying to do.  If I can make this work, I won?t have to run any extra cables, which I really don?t want to do. 

I am using a Winegard TRAV?LER SK-3005 roof mounted dish.  It has 4 outputs that appear to me to be coming from an internal multi switch.  I currently have them running directly to the DirecTV HD receivers.  One output to one receiver input.  Reception is great.  However, I don?t have the ability to use OTA, or cable (when in a park that has it).  As I said previously, I haven?t been able to find diplexers that will pass the signal.  If I can find any, I?ll certainly post it here as soon as I know it works.  I?m sure others are having the same dilemma. 

 

[Weewun]

You haven't disturbed your Video Switch so you have the ability to view OTA and Cable.  Your diplexer should have Sat and Cable connection on the diplexer, they are available at Radio Shack.  Sounds like you have Satellite splitters which is two Sat inputs.

Your Diagram is great but I dont see the location of the B-Band Converters, are they built into the Sattelite Dish???

 

[Mr_Bill]

There aren't any B_Band converters shown because I didn't know they were needed.  I changed the diagram and added them were I understand from the previous posts they are required.  I attached the new diagram.  My understanding is they are required between the dish output and the first diplexer, and then another is required between the following diplexer and the Sat receiver. 

Really appreciate the education.  I'm a computer guy with just enough knowledge about this stuff to be dangerous.

 

[Weewun]

Only one B-Band converter is needed per HD Rcvr and it must be before the 1st Diplexer.

1. You will need one for the Front Rcvr and it goes between the dish and the Rcvr (actually connects on the back of the Rcvr).

2. You will need one each for the Rear TV and Basement TV, but it will connect between the first Diplexer(s) and the Satellite Dish.

You do not need the two Diplexers you show at the output of the 2nd Diplexers.  The B-Band Converter changes the frequency band of some of your HD Channels are transmitted on to a lower Band that then can be passed through the Diplexer.  I contacted Direct TV and they sent me 3 B-Band Converters that I installed permanently in the MH so that all I have to do is take the Rcvrs from the house and connect the cable at their mounts in the MH.  I also installed permanent power cords and HDMI cables so I don't have to move any thing when I install the Rcvrs.

What you haven't answered is the question about your not being able to get OVA and cable.  With the setup above they should not be affected.  They will not come in the HDMI port of your TV but should be available at Ant/Cable Port.

Did you get Satellite Splitters or Diplexers???

 

[Mr_Bill]

Guess I'm a slow learner, and, can't read.  Your previous post was very clear once I read it again.  I changed the diagram.

I can get OTA & cable.  I can't get HD.  I do have diplexers that I am using for testing.  I have set up a test environment in my house where I can simulate the coach.  Once I get it working, I will install the setup in the coach.  I don't believe a B-Band converter will be needed on my front TV.  I get everything good now.  There are no diplexers needed for it.

Another coax & outside connection will need to be installed to take advantage of campgrounds that provide cable service.  I am using the original cable input coax to carry the HD signal to the outside TV. 

I do the same as you re moving the receivers between the coach to the house.  All I have to do is connect/disconnect 3 lines and go.  I won't need to do this too much longer though because we plan to go fulltime next spring.

I assume the switch over to OTA digital did not effect your ability of your system to receive all the stations.

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!

 

[Weewun]

What type of HD receivers do you have??  I have Direct TV and my Rcvrs each require a B-Band Converter. 

The Converter is connected to the back of the Rcvr between Satellite In and the Satellite Dish COAX.  If you don't use the B-Band converter ahead of the Diplexer, the Diplexer will block the HD signal.  The B-Band Converter is a small rectangular device about 3' long. 1/2" thick and 1" wide with a male and female coaxial pigtail.  MY Rcvrs is not designed to receive the B-Band carrier frequencies coming from the Dish.

I am confused by your statement that you are using the outside connected Coax to feed HD to the outside TV.  In most Rigs the outside Coax is connected to the Cable Input on the Video Switch and the outside TV is fed from the Video Switch.  The Cable Input Coax from the electrical Bay should stay connected to the Cable Input on the Video Switch as it feeds the  Front TV, BR TV and Outside TV thru the Vid Switch.

To get HD to your Outside TV you should be disconnecting the output Coax from the Vid Switch feeding such TV and doing the same Diplexer connection that you are doing for the BR.


We can communicate better if you give a call at 757-635-3921, it is a Cell Phone on Verizon.

 

[Weewun]

My Bad, went out to Direct TV and found out that the newer HD-DVR's do not require B-Band converters.  Sorry for the confusion. 

I am going to do a bit more research as to whether the newer HD-Rcvrs require B-Band converters.  Will also research for any Diplexers that will pass the B-Band.

 

[Jeff]

DirecTV's HR-20,21,22 HD DVD's require external converters, the HR-23 has them built in.

 

[Mr_Bill]

After getting the good educational feedback from this thread, I called technical support at DirecTV and spoke to a 2nd level support person.  Spoke to a seemingly know ledgable person.  He knew exactly what I was trying to do.  He told me that I would need to use a B-Band converter prior to the first diplexer.  He didn't believe that one would be needed between the 2nd diplexer and the receiver because I am using an H23-600 receiver.  These have a built in B-Band converter.  He said, "if that doesn't work, put in the 2nd one, and it should then work good".

I haven't had a chance to test it yet.  As soon as I do, I'll post back here and let everyone know.

 

[Weewun]

Direct TV's HD signals are KA High and KA Low Bands.  The KA Low Band is carried on frequencies between 250-750MHz.  The B-Band Converter up-converts the KA Low band to a Carrier Frequency between 1600 and 2150MHz.

A Diplexer sends frequencies below 800MHz to the TV/Cable and frequencies above 1500  to 2200MHz to the satellite as well as passing DC for LNB power/selection.  The Diplexer will block frequencies less than 1500MHz from passing thru to the Satellite.

You do not need a 2nd B-band converter at the BR and Basement TVs after the 2nd Diplexer..  If you are going to use H-23 DVRs in the BR or Basement you will still need the B-Band Converter ahead of the 1st Diplexer or the KA Low Band will never arrive at the RCVR/DVR in the BR/Basement.

If your front HD Rcvr is an H-23 DVR you will not need B-Band converter for it.