Francis Scott Key bridge, Baltimore, MD

[Onyrlef]

I thought that, by the time the ship reached the channel near the bridge, the Pilots would have already turned over to the crew, and departed.

The pilots don't depart until the ship is at the sea buoy, clear of the ship channel. Pilots are required in local waters where knowledge of wind and currents, depths, turns, hazards to navigation and etc. exist. Some ships, although it's rare, can forego pilots, but one of the officers on board must be certified to navigate the local waters.
The pilots unions are very insular, someone almost literally has to die before they admit a new member and often the new member is the son or grandson of the deceased member.
The senior pilots can make $300-$500,000 a year especially in the busy ports.
Towboat captains on the Mississippi can easily bring in $250,000, some of them more.

 

[Tom]

We've plied the waters of San Francisco Bay and the Sacramento/San Joaquin delta (recreationally) for many years. I haven't noticed pilot boats accompanying ships that head up river from the bay to the Port of Stockton. But, one time, we were in heavy fog and I saw 3 adjacent targets on radar - one large, and a smaller one on each side. Given the foggy conditions, I assumed the smaller targets were pilot boats, but presumably they could have been tugs.

We made sure we were well out of the way, and eventually they passed us (i.e. they were going in the opposite direction). They had a long way to go to get to the Golden Gate bridge and open ocean. We've made that trip numerous times, but I wouldn't care to be the captain or a pilot for one of those ships, even with unlimited visibility.

 

[Onyrlef]

We've plied the waters of San Francisco Bay and the Sacramento/San Joaquin delta (recreationally) for many years. I haven't noticed pilot boats accompanying ships that head up river from the bay to the Port of Stockton. But, one time, we were in heavy fog and I saw 3 adjacent targets on radar - one large, and a smaller one on each side. Given the foggy conditions, I assumed the smaller targets were pilot boats, but presumably they could have been tugs.

We made sure we were well out of the way, and eventually they passed us (i.e. they were going in the opposite direction). They had a long way to go to get to the Golden Gate bridge and open ocean. We've made that trip numerous times, but I wouldn't care to be the captain or a pilot for one of those ships, even with unlimited visibility.

The pilot boats usually operate from a facility close to the point where the pilots board and disembark, they don't run with the ship until it's close to the point where the ship reaches open water. I've been in fog in the Houston Ship Channel in Galveston Bay running on radar where you never see the ship until it's alongside you. All you see of a container ship is a wall of steel sliding by and hear the very faint rumble of his engines. Of course you're talking with the pilot on ch. 16, see you on the 1 is we're going to meet port to port, on the 2, starboard to starboard. Port to port is standard however, as you ordinarily keep to the right. It's been over 40 years but that's hard to forget.

 

[Ohiosnowbird]

We've plied the waters of San Francisco Bay and the Sacramento/San Joaquin delta (recreationally) for many years. I haven't noticed pilot boats accompanying ships that head up river from the bay to the Port of Stockton.

A lot of my sailing was East coast (though most of it was blue water), out of Buzzards bay to the vineyard, nantucket, Bermuda. There were times when we went into Boston Harbor, which in the 80’s seemed quite busy to me. When I saw the comment (I added to this thread above) about tugboats, that clicked in my head, there were many times we adjusted coarse in Boston Harbor because of tugboats. At the time I really didn’t pay attention to the different types of these “guide” boats, we just got out of the way. Which is why the random comment stuck with me. @Onyrlef straightened me out.

 

[1stimerver]

Going south to Richmond from the Delaware Memorial bridge could be a real problem. Guess I'm gonna have to get a couple of 10 lb propane tanks to get thru the tunnels..

 

[CharlesinGA]

Take US 13 south from Wilmington and then US 301 to Richmond. You cross bridges at Annapolis and across the Potomac.

Charles

 

[CharlesinGA]

To add to what I wrote. One of my neighbors has a sister that owns a horse farm on Maryland's eastern shore (that chunk of land that Maryland, Delaware and Virginia share) and she is up and down the east coast all the time with a truck and horse trailer and says that 301 is the way to go and avoid that mess called DC and Baltimore.

Charles

 

[Rene T]

Does anyone know if it will be be a problem taking I95 north through Baltimore near the end of April? Or is it too early to tell. I’ll be doing it on a Sunday.
I think I’ll also check with AAA

 

[Oldgator73]

To add to what I wrote. One of my neighbors has a sister that owns a horse farm on Maryland's eastern shore (that chunk of land that Maryland, Delaware and Virginia share) and she is up and down the east coast all the time with a truck and horse trailer and says that 301 is the way to go and avoid that mess called DC and Baltimore.

Charles

When we were going to SW Virginia from Dover, DE a couple times a month we took that route over the Bay bridge. Traffic can be quite bad and there’s always construction. Been over the Bay bridge and under the Bay bridge (cruise ship out of Baltimore down to the Panama Canal).

 

[Rene T]

To add to what I wrote. One of my neighbors has a sister that owns a horse farm on Maryland's eastern shore (that chunk of land that Maryland, Delaware and Virginia share) and she is up and down the east coast all the time with a truck and horse trailer and says that 301 is the way to go and avoid that mess called DC and Baltimore.

Charles

I just read that they were suppose start a 140 million dollar upgrade to the Bay bridge in the winter of 2023/2024. Anyone know if that has started and how much impact is it having on traffic?

Maybe the Chesapeake Bay Tunnel would be a better option. Time wise, I wonder how much longer taking this tunnel would be compared to I95 north?

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

I thought that, by the time the ship reached the channel near the bridge, the Pilots would have already turned over to the crew, and departed.

Maybe, but that would depend on the individual harbor's rules. When & where tugs and pilots are required are established by the entity that controls access to the harbor, most likely the City of Baltimore in this case. And the ships owners or insurers may have further policies concerning when & where to use pilots & tugs beyond whatever the harbormaster requires.

So far most of what I've seen in the media is what some "talking head" expert says about how things are or were done elsewhere. Or what some academic guru thinks should be done.

 

[LarsMac]

I just read that they were suppose start a 140 million dollar upgrade to the Bay bridge in the winter of 2023/2024. Anyone know if that has started and how much impact is it having on traffic?

Maybe the Chesapeake Bay Tunnel would be a better option. Time wise, I wonder how much longer taking this tunnel would be compared to I95 north?

They've been working on that for years, but so far there have seldom been huge traffic disruptions. Their website is usually up to date.
Still, if you have a RV, you are subject to the same restrictions as any other tunnel for Gas containers. If you don't have a bunch of LP bottles rolling around in your RV, you're probably good to go.
RV Bridge Ferry tunnel Guide

 

[LarsMac]

Maybe, but that would depend on the individual harbor's rules. When & where tugs and pilots are required are established by the entity that controls access to the harbor, most likely the City of Baltimore in this case. And the ships owners or insurers may have further policies concerning when & where to use pilots & tugs beyond whatever the harbormaster requires.

"So far most of what I've seen in the media is what some "talking head" expert says about how things are or were done elsewhere. Or what some academic guru thinks should be done."

Yeah, I've found that I seldom have time for all that.

 

[Rene T]

I went to AAA and they have me taking the Chesapeake bay bridge/ tunnel. It’s only going to be about 50 miles further than taking I95 through Baltimore. Time wise it may be faster with the possible heavy traffic on 95

 

[Joezeppy]

So far most of what I've seen in the media is what some "talking head" expert says about how things are or were done elsewhere. Or what some academic guru thinks should be done.

An unfortunate reality of our "right now" society. NTSB investigations can take months, if not longer, but the media pushes for immediate answers, points fingers, and will interview anyone willing to spew their opinion regardless of their actual knowledge. All this does is get the public in an uproar demanding answers that take time to develop.

 

[Onyrlef]

Maybe, but that would depend on the individual harbor's rules. When & where tugs and pilots are required are established by the entity that controls access to the harbor, most likely the City of Baltimore in this case. And the ships owners or insurers may have further policies concerning when & where to use pilots & tugs beyond whatever the harbormaster requires.

So far most of what I've seen in the media is what some "talking head" expert says about how things are or were done elsewhere. Or what some academic guru thinks should be done.

There’s no maybe about it. In the US the harbor doesn’t make the rules, the State and the Coast Guard do. No State is going to permit either a US flagged or foreign registered ship to transit waterways inside the bar or sea buoy without a licensed pilot on board, none.

 

[PancakeBill]

Once I used 13 and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel I stuck with that route. Much prettier, a little longer but not much traffic.

 

[Onyrlef]

An unfortunate reality of our "right now" society. NTSB investigations can take months, if not longer, but the media pushes for immediate answers, points fingers, and will interview anyone willing to spew their opinion regardless of their actual knowledge. All this does is get the public in an uproar demanding answers that take time to develop.

Like the reporter throwing his hands up in frustration because Buttigieg couldn’t tell him exactly how long it would take to open the ship channel or how much a new bridge will cost. The largest crane on the East coast is underway for Baltimore. It can lift 1000 tons, meaning those sections of the bridge will have to be cut into manageable pieces. None of that is going to happen in a hurry.

 

[1stimerver]

Take US 13 south from Wilmington and then US 301 to Richmond. You cross bridges at Annapolis and across the Potomac.

Charles

Thanks, The route looks a lot more complicated when viewed on google maps.
Safe travels and all the best

 

[Wasillaguy]

NTSB says the black box has no CCTV footage and they can't make out the audio due to background noise.
Sounds legit.