It's the best time ever to buy a used Tesla

[DonTom]

That's a factor for sure, but as I've said for the last 25 plus years most people won't buy a new EV unless it solves a problem they have. Just as there isn't a rush for folks to trade in their 25 mpg ICE cars for 30 mpg ones when they're introduced, even a demonstrable increase in economy an EV might offer isn't an automatic draw. No matter how into economy you are, it's rarely economical to jump into new cars regularly. There are a *lot* of people driving 3 ton plus behemoths around and fuel prices have to go up pretty high before those get traded in. I could probably cut my fuel costs (kWh vs gas) in half by switching to an EV. But it would cost me tens of thousands in acquisition cost, plus new car insurance rates, and lost opportunity. Spend many thousands to save a few hundred a year. If you're one to trade cars in regularly then maybe you'd take a shot with an EV for a while but if you're willing to pee away that much equity on an ongoing basis, you're not worried about fuel cost anyway. What problem does this solve? My personal belief is that there is a market for EV's just as there is a market for sports cars, SUV's and pickup trucks. But in order for someone to adopt an EV vs ICE, all things being equal, it has to solve a problem they have. Could be fuel prices, could be a perception of saving the planet, could be for fun or sport. All perfectly valid but those will be a subset of the number required for mass adoption no matter how you sell it. Even in the midst of the "oil crisis" in the 70's that kicked Detroit in the arse and brought economical japanese cars to the forefront, not everyone wanted japanese cars. Tesla's been shrinking back for a while now. I think they've tapped out the early adopters and the masses aren't buying into EV adoption as the government is attempting to orchestrate. Even with an EV mandate in place it's a hard row to hoe and I think a bit pie in the sky irrespective of EV street prices. Short of ceasing production of ICE vehicles, EV adoption would organically occur much more gradually, even if it's a good fit for most consumers. Average car ownership is 8 years, which means some folks (like me) keep their cars even longer. The natural half life of folks trading in cars is well past the artificial adoption dates being set. What problem do EV's solve - when it's problems consumers have, then you could see accelerated demand. I don't believe even today EV's are more than a niche or curiosity and even if less than the cost of ICE it still may not be cost effective to trade out of a perfectly good ICE.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

While that may all be true, the price of USED EVs went through the roof at the last peak of the gasoline price. And were difficult to find, as few wanted to sell theirs. Not sure about new. But I think when the price of used goes up so high that it would make many want to consider new.

While it is unlikely that anybody with a new ICE would consider EV, I think it could make a difference to those who are looking to buy a new car anyway. IOW, the ratio between new ICE and EV sales could change.

With the way the gas price has been jumping up here in Reno lately, we may soon find out!

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

the price of USED EVs went through the roof at the last peak of the gasoline price.

That coincided with the backlog of new ICE's too and it wasn't just the price of EV's that spiked. I got a letter from the dealer we bought our ICE from, an offer to buy it back for what we paid over a year previous. Clearly they wanted to move us into a newer, more expensive car with financing but still, we're on the steep end of the depreciation curve as it is so they clearly had a market and inflated markup for used cars. Yes, there are those that crunch the numbers and will pay a premium for a car they think will pay off in the short or long term, and more power to them. But I don't think there's enough of a market there to supplant the existing fleet of ICE's within a couple decades much less less than one decade. But, I could be all wet and I'm driving a Tesla in a couple years because it's a deal I can't beat. Entertaining to watch all this at least.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[DonTom]

But, I could be all wet and I'm driving a Tesla in a couple years because it's a deal I can't beat.

I bet you would love a Tesla. Perhaps best to buy used. But be sure it gets transferred correctly on the app. It's a different procedure than other cars. IOW, the seller is not going to like being charged for your Supercharging among other issues.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Onyrlef]

Yes, and my prediction is coming true faster than I expected, that EVs will soon be cheaper than ICE. Many types of EVs on the market these days.

But I think that could change soon, for a while at least, as the gas price is jumping up fast. More than five bucks per gallon for 87 octane here in Reno these days. Electricity here is 18 cents per KWH (one KWH is good for around 3.5 miles in my Tesla).

BTW, I saw my very first Cybertruck just a few days ago. Just down the block from me here.

Tesla has a lot of competition these days. And now that their great supercharging system is open to many other makes is probably working against Tesla. It's no longer a reason to buy Tesla.

-Don- Reno, NV

The price needs to be way below that of an ice vehicle, the resale/trade-in value of an EV is well below that of a comparable ice vehicle, ie., they're not worth what mfg'ers are asking for them. That's just one of the reasons Hertz is dumping them.

 

[Derby6]

It has been getting some use lately. Here is where it is located (often not seen from roads, but the car finds them for you):

Cooper Landing, AK:


-Don- Reno, NV

Funny you reignited this thread with this. We Alaskan's all know where Grizzly Ridge is. It's a tight area-- Fine for a lil car but real PIA for all if a guy parked there with a truck and a 30' boat on a trailer.
Solar power work great in the summer--Winter not so much.

 

[DonTom]

That's just one of the reasons Hertz is dumping them.

IMO, the main reason will be most people are not yet familiar with EVs. They should only rent EVs to those who are. And that has NOT been the type of people I meet at charge stations who I help with rented EVs.

Even I say it was a dumb idea for them to rent EVs, at least for now, to most people.

But I am the other type. If I were to rent a car, I would want to rent an EV. Perhaps there could be an exception for some places, but that is rather unlikely these days, for a longer-range EV.

As I have said here before, the term "most people" usually leaves me out.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Solar power work great in the summer--Winter not so much.

Read the note here. Perhaps it's no longer on solar, if it used to be. Or no longer on the genny if it used to be.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Onyrlef]

IMO, the main reason will be most people are not yet familiar with EVs. They should only rent EVs to those who are. And that has NOT been the type of people I meet at charge stations who I help with rented EVs.

Even I say it was a dumb idea for them to rent EVs, at least for now, to most people.

But I am the other type. If I were to rent a car, I would want to rent an EV. Perhaps there could be an exception for some places, but that is rather unlikely these days, for a longer-range EV.

As I have said here before, the term "most people" usually leaves me out.

-Don- Reno, NV

I suspect the plurality if not the majority of Hertz customers are business travelers, they mostly want something to get them from point A to point B, mucking around with an electric car is likely not in the itinerary, as in "sorry I'm late everyone, I was trying to find a place to plug my car in" as opposed to parking the car and getting out.

 

[DutchmenSport]

If the EV's are so "great" why are people selling them? Are they dumping their "mistake".

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

I'm soundly in the camp that an EV solves no problem I have today. I got the for fun/sport/novelty of it out of my system years ago. The only way that would change is if external forces present me with new problems. Government is hard at work on that, so it's probably only a matter of time. That's not to say though a technical breakthrough comes along that turns things on it's head and flips the paradigms of transportation too. Never say never, just gotta roll with it as it comes.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Skookum]

If the EV's are so "great" why are people selling them? Are they dumping their "mistake".

Nope. Hertz dumped almost 20,000 used EV's into the market in a corporate strategy shift. That was a mistake to begin with. It's not a good idea to send out a traveler with an EV who is unfamiliar with EV's and charging, and the local area. It's an even worse idea to put someone into an EV who didn't specifically reserve one.

Tesla has also been dropping prices in the wake of slower overall car sales and high interest rates. It just happens to be a great time if you want a deal on a used Tesla.

 

[Skookum]

I mean, look at all the nearly-new, used ICV's for sale. Way, way more of those than used EV's for sale. Maybe the former owners of those ICV's thought buying them was a mistake.

 

[DonTom]

If the EV's are so "great" why are people selling them? Are they dumping their "mistake".

The main reason is those who buy an EV who cannot home charge. Then it becomes a big hassle instead of a convenience. Such as a move to a place such as San Francisco.

I also wouldn't own EVs in that situation.

I have mentioned that a few times here, such as in San Francsico where most cannot even park within a block or two of their rented places. Also, then, fast charging on the road is often as expensive as gasoline. In some cases, even more expensive.

OTOH, it can be free to some, it all depends on location and where one needs to drive to and how often.

By law, in CA, all new houses must include an "EV ready" garage which means at least a 240 VAC outlet. But this does no good for those in places such as SF.

Some things are being done to help a little, but not much, IMO.

EVs are "great" to some people, but not all. At least for now. Sure works well for me to get between my house in Auburn and here in Reno where I can charge at 12 KW at each location. I have almost no need to ever charge on the road, expect for my electric motorcycles where I usually enjoy the charge breaks.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

I'm soundly in the camp that an EV solves no problem I have today.

I can say the same, I got by fine with only having ICE for many years.

But I find more advantages to EVs than ICE. Especially in the countless hills around here (because of the way regen works), home charging and other little things such as almost instant heat when cold or instant cool when hot. And can leave on when car is locked up. No oil changes to hassle with, no smog checks, can start when cold to move a few feet in a closed garage or whatever, and countless other little advantages over ICE. I find NO disadvantages to my EV cars, but there could be to some people.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Skookum]

Broken record, I know, but in our case an EV purchase (lease) is totally elective and experimental. ICV's have served us well for years. But we're car guys and believe in "don't knock it till you try it". Our EV is a great addition to the fleet.

 

[DonTom]

I suspect the plurality if not the majority of Hertz customers are business travelers, they mostly want something to get them from point A to point B, mucking around with an electric car is likely not in the itinerary, as in "sorry I'm late everyone, I was trying to find a place to plug my car in" as opposed to parking the car and getting out.

I doubt if many rent a car form more than around 200 miles to their meeting destination where charging could be an issue. Most likely will even be in the same town or very close to it.

All the people with rented EVs I have met at charge station who needed help, not even one of them was on a business-related trip.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Onyrlef]

All the people with rented EVs I have met at charge station who needed help, not even one of them was on a business-related trip.

-Don- Reno, NV

I rest my case.

 

[DonTom]

I know, but in our case an EV purchase (lease) is totally elective and experimental.

My very first EV purchase was my 2017 Zero DS motorcycle. The same one I take on my RV trips. I thought I was buying a little toy at the time, that would not be all that useful. Boy, was I wrong about that. I had no idea what that torque would feel like until my first ride on it. Has a very low range, around 40 miles on the freeway, but even that has not been an issue. More charge stops for a longer trip, but each stop is a lot shorter, making little difference to a bike that has many times the range. The only issue is if there are no charge stations within its limited range. But I rarely take that bike that far to need a charge on the road.

I rode it one time from Organ Pipe Cactus Nat'l Monument up to Ajo, AZ which is 36 miles where I recharged up at Olsen's Market Place. I charged it at 6.3 KW, near the full capacity of the charge station (6.48 KW) with my (non OEM) external charger setup:

 

[DonTom]

I rest my case.

Then you lost that case, as most of those drives are probably within five miles from the place the car was rented from.

Such as people who rent a car here in Reno on business. I will assume their business is a mile or so from the car rental agency. Or perhaps five miles if in Sparks. They pick up the rented car with a near full charge, if not full. 80% if they are doing it correctly. Unlikely to need a charge at all for their entire trip, including driving around for pleasure for the time they are here.

How often do businesspeople rent a car 250 miles or more from their meeting place? My guess is NEVER.

Also, many places they stay at in Reno or sparks (as well as countless other towns) will have charging included with their motel. Unlikely to even be needed for business travelers.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Mark_K5LXP]

most of those drives are probably within five miles from the place the car was rented from

One of my business associates travels a lot and elects EV's as a rental when he gets the chance, since the company pays for whatever and why not try out as many as he can. He gets the "return without fueling" option and most trips he drives the thing a few days and returns it without ever charging.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM