light duty trucks towing 5'ers

[Bayou Talker]

I wouldn't argue that at all. If it were so, how do so many people manage to tow boat, utility and RV trailers with little or no training? Why aren't there numerous accidents among RVers?  Why are insurance rates for Rvs relatively low?   Most of the skills we've talked about here involve properly configuring a tow vehicle and trailer, not actually driving one. Sorry - I don't see this as a driving license issue at all and think that nothing but a huge bureaucratic snafu would result from any attempt to create a towing license.

Sure, I wish RV dealers and the RVIA would step up with a reasonable and inexpensive voluntary driver training program for new RV owners. Maybe something like the AARP "55 Alive" Driver Safety Program.

RV Roamer, I think we are both agreeing with each other but IF any legal measures were to be required it should not be any more difficult than the above mentioned m/c endorsement. I think the reason we don't have a large amount of accidents with RV's and other trailers is that most drivers are a bit afraid when they start towing and take it easy until they get the hang of it. The reason accidents occur is many times due to pushing the limits of both equipment and ability just from not knowing any better. This has been a very informative discussion and the information included would be very valuable to a newbie BEFORE he buys his first rig. The problem is how to get it to them in time. Most only find forums like this after they have made the purchase and have questions.

 

[rbell]

So it sounds like another organization like the FAA is out. We all know how smooth it runs.

I went through a M/C training class a few years ago even though I had an endorsement on my license. It was very informative & they taught  a lot about safety and riding. It was operated privately buy some police motorcycle people. But I have to admit I didn't learn as much as I did driving around the farm when I was younger.

Gary did Fay get to your area?

 

[pkanalyst]

Sorry, I never meant to soapbox about this or imply that the President should be creating a department of rv?ing to be headed up by a Trailer Czar. 

What I am hearing is that presenting a first time trailer registrant with a pamphlet and/or 20 minute video which summarizes whatever local, state, and federal requirements exists for towing a trailer, and also stresses the importance properly configuring your rig, staying current on maintenance (i.e. bearings, brakes, tires), and techniques for reacting to an emergency condition (i.e. sway) would create a bureaucratic mess requiring an FAA type organization to administer it, and would show zero value added in making our roads and highways safer.

Perhaps the status quo is sufficient, I just wonder how many of the accidents (even if rare) could have been avoided with an ounce of prevention.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

Off-topic...

Gary did Fay get to your area?

Fay is still stalled slightly off shore near Daytona, due east of our place. We aren't there, but my daughter is living in our house for the summer and she reports lots of rain but only moderate winds.

 

[wilfreddrabble]

In my opinion, trailer manufacturers would do everybody including themselves & their dealers a huge favor if they would show a photograph of every model in their brochures  hooked up to an appropriate tow vehicle and show hitch arrangements as well, based on GVWR and hitch weights. These should not be "RV Lifestyle" pictures, just straightforward illustrations of acceptable combinations.

Truck manufacturers might consider doing likewise in their Towing Guides. Show a picture of every truck/engine/transmission combination hooked up to a suitable RV.

RV manufacturers should have a vested interest in seeing that their products are being towed safely with TV's that suit them. Ditto with truck manufacturers.

A truck brochure should say something like " Our 3/4 ton gas V8 pickup with trailer towing package & Class IV hitch is capable of towing a travel trailer with a GVWR of 7000 pounds with a tongue weight of 800 pounds using an equalizer hitch. The same truck is capable of towing a 5th wheel trailer with a GVWR of 7500 pounds with a pin weight not to exceed 1000 pounds using a fifth wheel in-bed hitch with a rating of 10,000 pounds. Simple clear, unambiguous language. No weasel words, lawyer talk or other nonsense need be printed

Just an ornery old John Alldredge

 

[Frizlefrak]

Well, we're back from a long weekend in Cloudcroft.  Yesterday evening, we watched one of the largest fifth wheels I've ever seen come into the campground.  It had to be over 40', had 3 axles, and three huge slide outs.  It BARELY made a couple of the turns in the campground....in fact, the driver's wife had to get out and spot for the driver on one of them, and they had to partially cut through one camp site to negotiate the turn.  The family consisted of husband and wife, and 5 kids ranging in age from about 6-13, and tons of camping gear.

Here's the kicker;  This monstrosity was being pulled by an F-250!!  It was a late model diesel, Super Duty...but it was still an F250.  And a single rear wheel to boot.

I meant to go get a pic of it and ask the owner what it weighed, but it looked like he had his hands full with this thing and then some just parking it and setting it up, and I didn't want to bother him.  He managed to get it into a spot...only took them about 45 minutes to get it stabbed in.

I wish I had the numbers in front of me, but this setup had to be wayyyy overweight.  I would NOT want to be in front of this guy coming down the hill to Alamogordo.  It looked like a catastrophe waiting for a place to happen.  I might be wrong....but I don't think so.  Wish I had pics....some of you would cringe.

 

[SCR]

Never trust an RV salesman, they are trying to take your money and will tell you anything. In some cases, like mine, attempt to prove to you that "It won't be a problem".

Please, please do not generalize like that.  I acknowledge that there are salesmen that are that way, but most (I hope) of them (us) know how to set up a rig, what a truck will safely tow.  Where I was we had a safety sheet that had a calculation to work it out,  if it was not safe the sales manager would not sign it. 

I had more trouble with customers telling me they were OK with something too big than anything.  Or, the salesman that sold the truck telling the guy he could haul a house!  Then try to tell them that the house they could haul was a 20' TT, not the 38' FW he wanted. 

RV Salesman want your money of course, we need to feed our families too, but most of us have your best interest at mind.  And no matter what you hear of service at any dealer, it isn't the salesman's fault.  We want them to be better too!

Bill,

I am sorry if I offended you, it was not my intent.

However, my experience with RV salesmen over our 11 years of full timing and 3 purchases were not as you describe. In fact quite the opposite. We did not stick to one locale in our search and purchases.  We spoke with a lot of sales people as we traveled the east coast in the case of our first purchase.  In subsequent purchases we were pretty much searching nation wide. Without exception, again just our experience, we were told untruths about the ability of our TV's to tow rigs way to heavy in an attempt to up the sale. Lucky for us we became much more informed, mostly from fellow campers, and resisted the high pressure sales pitch.

None-the-less  I will retract my earlier statement and in the future amend it to "Never trust 'most' RV salesmen".

I applaud both you and your company for your efforts in sending your customers in the right direction. You and your company are first class. My purchases would have been much more enjoyable had I been dealing with you.

When we started out those many years ago we did not have Internet or these types of forums to refer to nor did we even know anyone that owned an RV. We were the rawest form of newbie. We started out in our F250 van in search of our first RV. I admit that we looked to the salesman we spoke to as the "expert" in the field. We did not know any better. If it were not for the fellow campers we met along the way we would have most likely made a dreadful, if not deadly, mistake. We can not thank them enough for their wisdom and willingness to share that wisdom with us. In return we have tried to share our learned experiences and offer suggestions when ever we can to other newbie's when they are receptive and it is appropriate.

s.

 

[PancakeBill]

Thank you.  Be aware too, some RV'ers think that if you are doing it, you aren't doing it right cuz you aren't doing it like them.  (SOME RV'ers)

 

[Carl L]

I wish I had the numbers in front of me, but this setup had to be wayyyy overweight.  I would NOT want to be in front of this guy coming down the hill to Alamogordo.  It looked like a catastrophe waiting for a place to happen.  I might be wrong....but I don't think so.  Wish I had pics....some of you would cringe.

Next time you see a boat like that, casually idle over to the front of the left side of the unit and see if you can catch a peek at the DOT plate.  It will have the GVWR.  If it were an ounce less than 18,000 lbs I would be surprised.  The greatest tow rating for a 2008 F-250 is around 16,200 lbs and most are 12,500 or less.

 

[busa]

I saw a Nissan Titan pulling a nice size 5fth wheel not too long ago at a KOA in Orlando, Fl. I was surprized since i work for Nissan and this was the first time a saw a Titan with a 5fth wheel. The owner was very pleased with it and he said it would handle beautifuly.

 

[Gary RV_Wizard]

The rear axle capacity of any half ton is a bit light for fivers over about 8500 lbs, but a suitably configured Titan would handle that size nicely.

 

[Frizlefrak]

Next time you see a boat like that, casually idle over to the front of the left side of the unit and see if you can catch a peek at the DOT plate.  It will have the GVWR.   If it were an ounce less than 18,000 lbs I would be surprised.   The greatest tow rating for a 2008 F-250 is around 16,200 lbs and most are 12,500 or less.

I didn't even think of looking at the DOT plate.  The family went into town once, I could have nonchalantly glanced at the GVWR.  But I don't really think I needed to.  I think your estimate is spot on.  18K plus.  It was, quite honestly, the largest fiver I've ever seen.  And it caught the attention of everyone in the campground.  I think they were all making contingency plans to get out of it's way if it happened to appear in their rear view mirror on the way home. 

 

[PancakeBill]

I had a customer with the Nissan that wanted to buy a 5th wheel.  Tough part was finding a hitchmaker with the kit for the truck.  B&W is the only we could find.  Then he couldn't find one in his weight range he wanted, the ones he liked woul need a Big-a$$ed truck to pull.  He went home to reconsider. 

Maybe he went to a dealer that would sell him anything?

 

[busa]

Only american made if you want to do the pulling and handle the weight. And it also helps if you have a heavy duty truck since the brakes are a lot bigger., because inmagine if the trailer brakes fail. it happened to me pulling my old 38 feet Keystone Raptor toy hauler fifht  wheel coming from Daytona Fl. Thank God i had a GMC with the Duramax Diesel and the allison transmission with the grade brakes feature.

 

[Ron]

I had a customer with the Nissan that wanted to buy a 5th wheel.  Tough part was finding a hitchmaker with the kit for the truck.  B&W is the only we could find.  Then he couldn't find one in his weight range he wanted, the ones he liked woul need a Big-a$$ed truck to pull.  He went home to reconsider. 

Maybe he went to a dealer that would sell him anything?

Unfortunately I strongly believe that you with your high values and ethics are among the minority Bill as far as salesman go.  I would not hesitate to recommend you to friends if you were in our area or given the opportunity.  Keep up the good work.

 

[wilfreddrabble]

Only american made if you want to do the pulling and handle the weight. And it also helps if you have a heavy duty truck since the brakes are a lot bigger., because inmagine if the trailer brakes fail. it happened to me pulling my old 38 feet Keystone Raptor toy hauler fifht  wheel coming from Daytona Fl. Thank God i had a GMC with the Duramax Diesel and the allison transmission with the grade brakes feature.

Well, there ARE Isuzu, Hino, & Mitsubishi medium duty trucks (ie, NOT American made) that I have seen used as TV's for heavy weight TT's but I'm nit picking and I do get your point! Tundras and Nissan 1/2 tons should be out of contention once GVWR's reach 10,000 pounds.

John Alldredge, lurking on this thread just to make trouble! :-\

 

[Carl L]

When the GVWRs get over 8000 I would have doubts about Tundra 5.7s  -- over 7000 with the Nissans 5.6s -- especially in the west.

 

[JBougher]

Hey all. I have a question. new to the sight and rv`n...I just sold my boat, and selling my Harley to get a 5th whl. No I heavent lost my mind, just needing to make some family time before my son gets old enough to not want to do anything with me..I couldn`t help but notice your subject and needed a couple of opinions because I`m getting conflicting so far...I have an 06 1500 mega cab dodge w tow pkg...1st... It has a 3/4 ton chasis and axles w/HD 1/2 ton suspension...Anyboy see any issues with me tugging a 27ft Forest River?  2nd..Do you think  I need a slider hitch? Your input would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[John From Detroit]

Well.. I'd have to have the specs on the truck and the trailer to see if there is an issue with towing but I'd hope a 3/4 ton truck could handle the trailer .... The problem comes when folks try to do it with an F-150 or equal.

Slider hitch... Sorry, don't know about those.. Others can tell you the good and bad points.

 

[JBougher]

Thanks for the reply. Its only a 1/2 ton but has HD suspension and box frame...I was told its a 3/4 ton frame..?I did fond out my truck will tow 7300lbs with my combo and gear ratio. I need to find out the trlr weight..I think a 27ft is too hvy? may need to go with a 24ft.