E-Motorhome

[DonTom]

it does nothing that I need in a vehicle other than go from Point A to Point B.

Sure, I don't need a car at all. In fact, I went for years with only one bicycle and one motorcycle.

"Want" is different than "need". If I got rid of all the junk I don't need, there would go 99.9% of what I own.

FWIW, I expect EVs to be cheaper than most ICE in a few years.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Tulecreeper]

Sure, I don't need a car at all. In fact, I went for years with only one bicycle and one motorcycle.

"Want" is different than "need". If I got rid of all the junk I don't need, there would go 99.9% of what I own.

FWIW, I expect EVs to be cheaper than most ICE in a few years.

-Don- Auburn, CA

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happens. And if it does, it will more than likely be because Big Brother passes some tax law that will impart a huge surcharge on any new ICE vehicles raising the price to unaffordable amounts for most people.

 

[DonTom]

As well they are pretty cheap to run if one can charge at home.

And sometimes even cheaper when NOT charged at home. There are a lot of free to use level two charge stations around. Even a few free level three, such as here.

Any free ones up there in Canada?

In the Reno area, free Level two is the norm. As well as countless other places, even here in CA.

Such as where I charged here for free yesterday. That was a nice place with picnic tables under shady trees where I was playing with my notebook computer. There have been times I wanted the charge to take even longer!

There was a sign there to try not to step on the many rattlesnakes seen in that area.

And other warnings such as:

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Viajeros]

And sometimes even cheaper when NOT charged at home. There are a lot of free to use level two charge stations around. Even a few free level three, such as here.

Any free ones up there in Canada?

In the Reno area, free Level two is the norm. As well as countless other places, even here in CA.

Such as where I charged here for free yesterday. That was a nice place with picnic tables under shady trees where I was playing with my notebook computer. There have been times I wanted the charge to take even longer!

There was a sign there to try not to step on the many rattlesnakes seen in that area.

And other warnings such as:

-Don- Auburn, CA

Hi Don. Free charging is pretty rare here, at least in our travels.

Two exceptions.

Private restaurants or businesses and some hotels that use free charging as a loss leader to bring customers in.

Transport Canada has a few free DC fast chargers on critical routes for winter safety. They are only there until private enterprise covers off the area and then are removed. They also have a few in very isolated areas like port McNeil, again only until private enterprise covers off the area. They are slowly disappearing.

 

[DonTom]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happens. And if it does, it will more than likely be because Big Brother passes some tax law that will impart a huge surcharge on any new ICE vehicles raising the price to unaffordable amounts for most people.

Could be. As long as they use that revenue for something useful, I will not complain too much.

Besides, I doubt if I will ever buy another ICE vehicle for the rest of my life--or any vehicle at all.

My 16 vehicles are enough for one person. Of those 16, seven are electric. So I still have more ICE vehicles than electric.

I expect to stick with what I have for the rest of my life.

However, there is a formula for how many motorcycles we should own, which proves I am one short.

The formula is "N + 1", where "N" represents the current number of motorcycles I own. . .

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Private restaurants or businesses and some hotels that use free charging as a loss leader to bring customers in.

Here, most of the restaurants and many of the motels let ANYBODY charge for free, even noncustomers. But they may have different rules for noncustomers where they only have one charge station.

Here is an example. Look at all the photos there. You will see me charging my Experia there as I was having lunch on the opposite side of the river.

Where they have more charge stations, such as here, the policy is do not bother to ask, just plug in anytime, even if you never plan to be a paying customer there.

Many places are pro-EV and wish to help out all EVs. Perhaps the owners are EV owners themselves, I do not know.

But I do know it can help them also. For an example, before the city of Yerington, NV had any public charge stations at all, during a trip, I went to the Chevy dealer and asked if I could use theirs while I walked to a nearby Mexican restaurant for lunch. They were extra friendly and very nice, and I did not even own a Chevy or plan to buy one at that time. A few weeks past and I decided I wanted an EV car at each of my houses. Without even checking the local dealers in Reno, I went to Yerington, NV (115 km from my Reno house) and purchased my new Red Chevy Bolt.

Click on the photo here and see my smaller Energica charging in May of 2021. That free charge is what made a +40K$ car sale for them.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Viajeros]

Here, most of the restaurants and many of the motels let ANYBODY charge for free, even noncustomers. But they may have different rules for noncustomers where they only have one charge station.

Here is an example. Look at all the photos there. You will see me charging my Experia there as I was having lunch on the opposite side of the river.

Where they have more charge stations, such as here, the policy is do not bother to ask, just plug in anytime, even if you never plan to be a paying customer there.

Many places are pro-EV and wish to help out all EVs. Perhaps the owners are EV owners themselves, I do not know.

But I do know it can help them also. For an example, before the city of Yerington, NV had any public charge stations at all, during a trip, I went to the Chevy dealer and asked if I could use theirs while I walked to a nearby Mexican restaurant for lunch. They were extra friendly and very nice, and I did not even own a Chevy or plan to buy one at that time. A few weeks past and I decided I wanted an EV car at each of my houses. Without even checking the local dealers in Reno, I went to Yerington, NV (115 km from my Reno house) and purchased my new Red Chevy Bolt.

Click on the photo here and see my smaller Energica charging in May of 2021. That free charge is what made a +40K$ car sale for them.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Good to hear they are EV friendly there. I don’t think they are EV unfriendly here, it’s just most L2 units are networked FLO or ChargePoint units. Typically a buck or two an hour. Campgrounds are even going that way now. We stayed at the Kaslo municipal campground and they had just finished installing a pair of FLO networked stations. Seems to me they were 2 bucks an hour not 9 sure. And I think they were 9 kw machines but again can’t remember for sure. Anyway, nice and handy right at the bath house. We hooked up for 4 or 5 hours the afternoon we got there. All charged by bedtime.

 

[DonTom]

it’s just most L2 units are networked FLO or ChargePoint units.

And here is a free ChargePoint Level Two and Three. And networked. And they both work (many other free L3 have been broken for years).

Paid for by the City of Garnerville, NV.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Viajeros]

And here is a free ChargePoint Level Two and Three. And networked. And they both work (many other free L3 have been broken for years).

Paid for by the City of Garnerville, NV.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Nice. We actually have one in town at the library city hall that’s free. But you have to pay for parking.

 

[Ex-Calif]

I have several cars and trucks. I keep thinking to get rid of the dead weight. I am not an EV zealot but I recognize that as a grocery getter they make a lot of sense (for me).

I also think that if one shops carefully one can get great deals. One thing that concerns me (slightly) is EV resale. I looked at this Leaf today and the price ($9k) year (2016) and mileage ~35k make it a fine choiuce for me if I was interested in a grocery getter right now.

What was alarming was that it's been in the dealer lot for over 40 days and has had $1500+ in price drops. I think there is a lot of hesitation by people to buy an EV - especially a used one.

Unfortunately I have other cars and vehicles on my bucket list and I am more serious about buying a BMW Z3 or 4, or a 60's Mustang convertible - LOL...

 

[DonTom]

We actually have one in town at the library city hall

All the libraries I have used have been free parking and free charging. Such as here and here.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Here is some of the latest battery vaporware.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

especially a used one.

Especially their very first one, regardless of if new or used.

Most likely, that Leaf would make a great grocery-getter, even if the battery has lost more than the normal capacity since 2016. Take it for a test ride for several miles and see if the SOC% drop is in reason. Leafs don't have a lot of range, but more than enough for a grocery getter and much more.

It has either a 24 or 30 KWH battery. Figure around 3.5 miles per KWH when new. Even if it has lost half that down to 12/15 KWH (very unlikely to degrade that much) you're good for 50 miles or a grocery store that is 25 miles away.

But it won't be a great car to drive across the country. For now, for any serious long EV driving stick with Tesla.

On the road, an old Japanese car like that will be CHAdeMO for DC fast charging , which is getting less common.

But they have adapters for J-1772 (most common of all) and home AC charging . For just a grocery-getter, it should work if you just have it plugged into a 120VAC outlet. Just always keep it plugged in when you're home and not using it. 240 VAC will be a lot faster home charge.

If you do check into it, see what charge stuff it comes with, if any.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Viajeros]

Our old leaf (we sold it a few years back) now has over 227,000 kilometres on it. It was a fun little commuter for us.

 

[DonTom]

Our old leaf (we sold it a few years back) now has over 227,000 kilometres on it. It was a fun little commuter for us.

In that 227,000 km (140,000 miles) did you notice any battery degradation (or any other issues)?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Ex-Calif]

Especially their very first one, regardless of if new or used.

Most likely, that Leaf would make a great grocery-getter, even if the battery has lost more than the normal capacity since 2016. Take it for a test ride for several miles and see if the SOC% drop is in reason. Leafs don't have a lot of range, but more than enough for a grocery getter and much more.

That's exactly my point on hesitation on a used EV. There are lots of (maybe) urban myth around the cost of replacement batteries.

Another thing with EVs - the next jump in capability and the prices jump immediately into the high $20ks and $30ks. That's a lot of money for a used sedan.

 

[Viajeros]

In that 227,000 km (140,000 miles) did you notice any battery degradation (or any other issues)?

-Don- Reno, NV

Hi Don. We sold it with a lot less kilometres so no. But apparently the guy who owns it now says he has lost 2 bars so I’m guessing 18 percent or more loss as I think the first bar is 12 percent and the remaining are something like 6 percent. Not an expert though. Not sure.

But for sure I would think at 227000 kilometres he has lost 20 percent or more. He doesn’t care. He uses it for a commuter. Same route everyday.

 

[Adventurous Traveler]

My thoughts here in the Northeast in grocery getter is about the only type of E-Vehicle I would want to own. Winter and sub-freezing temps don't match up well with EV and battery life.

EX-Calif brings up a great point that I have wondered about too which is the resale or trade-in value of an electric vehicle? I good friend of mine recently bought a Hyundai EV6 for around $56K. This was the recommended EV to buy to her by her brother who works for GM and was involved with the development of the Chevy Volt. I asked Deb if she asked the dealer about trade-in values and the dealer slipped the question when she inquired if she didn't like the EV and wanted to trade back to an ICE car what could she expect in value.

So, a week or two after Deb gets her EV she is going on a small trip to Sandusky, OH from the Buffalo, NY area about 250 miles. Her partner reminds her to plug the car in the night before they are to depart. Well, Deb is a little lazy and didn't plug in as reminded. So when they left for Sandusky the next morning she got as far as Fredonia, NY, about 50 miles, before she had to pull off I90 to stop at a Walmart to recharge. Of course, she had to wait her turn, then recharge not to a full charge, and eventually get back on the road an hour and a half later. A person with an ICE car would have pulled off the interstate, hit a gas station, and been back on the road in 10 minutes.

Since this is an RV forum, my comment to Deb when she got her car is sometimes I find it a PIA just to have to move my motorhome around the driveway because I have to remember to unhook the electrical cord and then not forget to plug it back in which I would guess most RV'ers have experienced a few times with their RVs. Can't see doing that with a daily driver.

 

[DonTom]

EX-Calif brings up a great point that I have wondered about too which is the resale or trade-in value of an electric vehicle?

It follows the gasoline price. When gasoline goes way up is when you do NOT want to buy a used EV. Then the used EV prices go way up--if you can find one for sale!

When the gas prices go down, few look for used EVs. Then the price drops.

But IMO, gas prices is not really a great reason to buy an EV.

FWIW, I have driven my EVs cars in very cold weather. I cannot say I notice any differences.

But just a little cool on an EV motorcycle makes a big difference in its range on a charge. Often 20% less range as well as other issues such as slow charging. Much colder than that, nobody will be on a motorcycle anyway. But modern EV cars can deal with the cold and hot weather much better. So far, no electric motorcycles have battery warmers or coolers. Modern EV cars can deal with it better.

Look at this EV charging here, the Kia Niro EV 2020 at the very northern tip of Alaska in Utqiagvik.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[Ex-Calif]

EX-Calif brings up a great point that I have wondered about too which is the resale or trade-in value of an electric vehicle?

Curious as well I did some googling and research. I would say it is very hard to get any unbiased info. Everything I read has a smell of sponsorship and bias about it.

Also the ones that compare EVs favorably do not project past like 5 years. My cynical side thinks that is for obvious reasons.

Some allow that a small sedan replacement engine might come at 200k miles at a cost of $4k and a "similar" EV might have a battery cost of up to $15k although the battery should last 500k(!!!) miles.

In regards to plugging the EV in, that is why one of my biases against an EV for cross country travel. I really like hybrids for that but then you have the maintenance cost of both an ICE and EV - sigh...

This is an interesting chart comparing several EV vs. ICE models over 100k miles. Of note is that none (obviously) have had a battery change or engine change.

Of course you also need to factor in the Fuel vs. Electricity savings and maintenance cost which are also hard to parse out.

I guess my personal learning is this. As I typed this up I realized there was zero consideration for saving the planet in my research. It's simply about cost per mile vs. pleasure to drive and convenience.

Maybe that's the hurdle that the EV world needs to overcome.