EV batteries

[SeilerBird]

So, now you're accusing me of having an "agenda" against EVs?! Give me a break!

I actually have nothing against EVs. I think they may be an alternative to some ICE vehicles, except for the fact that they cannot go the same distances in the same amount of time as ICE vehicles, due to charging times, charging locations, and distance restrictions per charge versus "fill up" time with ICE vehicles. Plus, there is the fact that EVs are not as good as ICE vehicles for towing, because that drains their batteries even faster. Now, I've heard and seen articles that Tesla has a new EV alternative to semi-trucks, and they're supposed to be able to go 500 miles on a single charge, and are supposed to be able to charge faster than their cars, but I still take issue with all the "fossil fuel" cost that is necessary to create those batteries, which is being ignored in saying they are "zero emission" vehicles. It is this initial "cost" that I was referencing, which was shown in the articles I linked.

Granted, both of these issues of charging times and distance may be fixed in the near future due to further research and design improvements, but for this Administration to "dictate" that we move so rapidly to using EVs, before such infrastructure and innovations are in place, is incompetent at least, and deceptively criminal at worst. That is what I have a problem with.

You sure have me fooled. I cannot imagine anyone making so much gloom and doom over switching over to EVs. Drunk drivers are a lot more of a problem than switching over to EVs. 40,000 a year dying in traffic accidents but you worry about something that might happen in the future? Why not spend you time on something worthwhile?

 

[DonTom]

According to Tesla, it's only 120,000 miles

You mean they always crap out one mile after the warranty expires? Is that true with all vehicles, or only with Tesla?

See here.

"The average lifespan of a Tesla battery is 300,000-500,000 miles."

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Left Here]

You sure have me fooled. I cannot imagine anyone making so much gloom and doom over switching over to EVs. Drunk drivers are a lot more of a problem than switching over to EVs. 40,000 a year dying in traffic accidents but you worry about something that might happen in the future? Why not spend you time on something worthwhile?

If you really cared about other people, then why not be more concerned over the "opiod crisis" and the influx of fentanyl coming into this country with illegal immigrants? That kills even more than "drunk drivers" every year, so by your same innuendo, you don't care about that, right? Give me a break!

I may be cynical about the "push" toward EVs, and the "timing" of it, but I think EVs are going to make a significant impact on transportation in the future. I just see too many people, like yourself, who go at this full force with blinders on, ignoring the impact the "production" of the EV batteries has on the environment, which people like you seem to be so concerned about. If you were honestly concerned about the environment, then you would want to look at those numbers, too. Plus, you would be thinking ahead to what happens when those EV batteries are no longer viable, and have to be either broken down to be recycled or destroyed, and how that would affect the environment, too. If you've seen the pictures of the guys in hazmat suits trying to do that, you would know that cannot be considered "environmentally friendly".

If you were really concerned about the environment, then you might be more interested in hydrogen powered vehicles, instead. They're cleaner, cheaper, and have an easier and quicker recharging time, as well as being completely environmentally sustainable and safe. Have you heard of any hydrogen powered vehicles catching fire? Have you heard of any hydrogen vehicles exploding? Something to think about, especially when some of the newer hydrogen vehicles are using interchangeable "cells", so the "recharging" time is cut down considerably, since it would require just changing a tank. Also, with hydrogen, the "byproduct" of it's "production" and use is water, which is not harmful to the environment, at all!

 

[Left Here]

You mean they always crap out one mile after the warranty expires? Is that true with all vehicles, or only with Tesla?

See here.

"The average lifespan of a Tesla battery is 300,000-500,000 miles."

-Don- Auburn, CA

I'm not saying that the entire car is going to fall apart at 120,000 miles, but if the battery has to be replaced soon after that, and the cost to do that is as much or more than it would cost to buy another vehicle, what do you think people are going to do? Won't those people simply buying a different vehicle mean that there would be even more vehicles that need to have those batteries "recycled" or destroyed? Would that impede or affect the already shallow abilities our systems have to do that? Especially, when there doesn't appear to be any legislation in place to specifically handle these lithium batteries? Think about it!

It happens in the IT industry every day, now. People find it's less expensive to buy a new PC than it is to fix the old one, even if all it needs is a new "battery" (which is made mostly of lithium, too). And what do you think happens to all those PCs that don't get repaired, and their dead, defective batteries? Many, unfortunately, end up in a land fill. Is that "good" for the environment? No! Do you honestly think it's going to be different with an EV battery that costs more than a whole other EV vehicle to replace, when the cost to recycle it is also extremely high, as well as dangerous? Get real!

Granted, as technology improves, it will likely get better. But how long will that take? If you really want to know, trying looking at solar panel technology, and how long it has taken to get to where it is today, and how little it has improved over that time. Can you honestly expect something so drastically different with EV technology?

 

[SeilerBird]

If you really cared about other people, then why not be more concerned over the "opiod crisis" and the influx of fentanyl coming into this country with illegal immigrants? That kills even more than "drunk drivers" every year, so by your same innuendo, you don't care about that, right? Give me a break!

I may be cynical about the "push" toward EVs, and the "timing" of it, but I think EVs are going to make a significant impact on transportation in the future. I just see too many people, like yourself, who go at this full force with blinders on, ignoring the impact the "production" of the EV batteries has on the environment, which people like you seem to be so concerned about. If you were honestly concerned about the environment, then you would want to look at those numbers, too. Plus, you would be thinking ahead to what happens when those EV batteries are no longer viable, and have to be either broken down to be recycled or destroyed, and how that would affect the environment, too. If you've seen the pictures of the guys in hazmat suits trying to do that, you would know that cannot be considered "environmentally friendly".

I am not pushing for EVs. Sure I would love to own one, but I don't care less about what everyone else drives. I don't give a **** about the environment. I am 74 years old and so I am not worried about the future. All these people having babies have screwed up the environment beyond repair.

If you were really concerned aboutvs the environment, then you might be more interested in hydrogen powered vehicles, instead. They're cleaner, cheaper, and have an easier and quicker recharging time, as well as being completely environmentally sustainable and safe. Have you heard of any hydrogen powered vehicles catching fire? Have you heard of any hydrogen vehicles exploding? Something to think about, especially when some of the newer hydrogen vehicles are using interchangeable "cells", so the "recharging" time is cut down considerably, since it would require just changing a tank. Also, with hydrogen, the "byproduct" of it's "production" and use is water, which is not harmful to the environment, at all!

You have managed to write two long paragraphs without answering my question.

Don't waste your time answering this because you were just added to my ignore list.

 

[Oldgator73]

However, what you're missing is this question: What is the "life" of that EV battery? According to Tesla, it's only 120,000 miles. According to these articles, it's between 100,000-200,000 miles, or 8-12 years.

The average warranty on an ICE vehicle is 3 year/36,000 mile whichever comes first. Chevy offers a 5 year/60,000 mile and Kia’s is 10 years/100,000 miles. So, can we assume ICE vehicles crap out at 37 months or 36,001 miles?

 

[DonTom]

"recycled" or destroyed?

Recycled. See here.

"we are an end of life facility that specializing in EV and Hybrid vehicle battery recycling. "

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

hydrogen powered vehicles catching fire

See here.

" In particular, the high operating pressure at which hydrogen is carried in vehicles and which, depending on the application, is 350 bar or 700 bar, harbours the danger of a fire event unknown to conventional vehicle engines: jet fire."

There is no such thing as perfectly save energy storage. Not of any type. But some types are safter than others.

Even humans can store energy and because of that, this can happen.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Left Here]

See here.

" In particular, the high operating pressure at which hydrogen is carried in vehicles and which, depending on the application, is 350 bar or 700 bar, harbours the danger of a fire event unknown to conventional vehicle engines: jet fire."

There is no such thing as perfectly save energy storage. Not of any type. But some types are safter than others.

Even humans can store energy and because of that, this can happen.

-Don- Auburn, CA

The article you posted simply says it's possible to have a fire in a hydrogen vehicle, but it did not show any examples! Nice try, though.

 

[Babe2201]

The average warranty on an ICE vehicle is 3 year/36,000 mile whichever comes first. Chevy offers a 5 year/60,000 mile and Kia’s is 10 years/100,000 miles. So, can we assume ICE vehicles crap out at 37 months or 36,001 miles?

No we are not supposed to think that. It is really kind of a silly point. All the warranty means is that the buyer is responsible for the repairs once the warranty is over. Most repairs on ICE vehicles are worth doing. If a battery dies on an EV the vehicle might no longer be worth investing the money into a new battery for it.

 

[DonTom]

The article you posted simply says it's possible to have a fire in a hydrogen vehicle, but it did not show any examples! Nice try, though.

AFAIK, I have never even seen a hydrogen vehicle on the road. Have you?

But . . . . (watch on YouTube)

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Wasillaguy]

I don't give a **** about the environment. I am 74 years old and so I am not worried about the future. All these people having babies have screwed up the environment beyond repair.

I am also of an advanced age, but I do care about the future/environment because I have children and grandchildren.
If it weren't for the breeders, no one would care for the environment.
It's the baby makers who have a vested interest.

 

[SeilerBird]

I am also of an advanced age, but I do care about the future/environment because I have children and grandchildren.
If it weren't for the breeders, no one would care for the environment.
It's the baby makers who have a vested interest.

I have on kids or grandkids so I am not one of the ones screwing this place up.
8 billion people on a planet that could comfortably hold about one billion. It's the breeders who have screwed this planet up.

 

[DonTom]

. If a battery dies on an EV

They rarely "die". What it means to Tesla is that the battery capacity has gone below 70% of its KWH capacity. IOW, if my 70 KWH battery gets below 49 KWH capacity while in warranty (very unlikely), I get a free replacement.

When it reaches the "average life" of ~400,000 miles, it can still be used, but will probably be below that 49 KWH capacity. Even when it gets below 50% of its normal range (below 35KWH) it can still be used. Not only that, it will charge to full twice as fast (because it's half the KWH capacity and normally, it does follow). To most people, it won't be a big deal. I could easily get by with less half the range of my Tesla. And even driving across the USA that should still work. Twice as many charge stops but each for half the time. The only issue could be if you do not have the range to get from one charger to the next, which is somewhat unlikely with Tesla even with half the range.

In fact, the Enegica Experica motorcycle has less than half the freeway range of the Tesla and there is a couple right now who are riding them from South San Francsico, CA to their home in Florida:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=669441358250976

I see they are now in New Orleans.

Warranties are different with each EV. For an example, Zero motorcycles are unlimited mileage for five years and they use 80% instead of 70% for the warranty. Tesla uses 8 years but only 120K miles, IIRC. But expect a lot more miles and years than that to be the norm. Energica only has a 3-year battery warranty perhaps because that little motorcycle battery can be charged at 25KW with CCS and often is.

Now if your timing belt (or even timing chain) breaks on your interference ICE engine the day after your warranty expires, you will probably want to junk it! I would rather take my chances with the EV battery slowly degrading.


-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Alaskansnowbirds]

What infuriates me is that taxpayer dollars are being used to build charging stations.

Show me one gas station that was built with taxpayer money!

 

[DonTom]

Show me one gas station that was built with taxpayer money!

Then perhaps you should buy an EV and then you will have nothing to complain about!

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

Show me one gas station that was built with taxpayer money!

Okay!

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Oldgator73]

What infuriates me is that taxpayer dollars are being used to build charging stations.

Show me one gas station that was built with taxpayer money!

There are about 750 military installations worldwide. Each one has at least one gas station.

 

[DonTom]

Here is a place and time I would not want to need a charge on a Tesla battery during a long trip.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Babe2201]

Then perhaps you should buy an EV and then you will have nothing to complain about!

-Don- Auburn, CA

Other than the fact that he owns an EV. Not all of us feel the need for one and a lot of us do not want to see a lot of mom and pop repair shut down because of an agenda.