firearm question

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Tasers: I'll step into this one with considerable trepidation.

I've seen Police use tasers, several times, to effect an arrest. Wonderful weapon, and I am glad they have them. Saves a lot of injuries on both sides. Even life saving - sometimes - mostly benefitting the bad guy. The officer does have a gun, for an alternative. Better, to end a confrontation without taking a life.

I have quite a few weapons, but do not have a taser. That is an affirmative choice. I don't want one. They don't do what I need done. It would be nice, if the BG, having been tased, would run away at the first opportunity. Doesn't work that way.

In the events that I have witnessed, the BG has been temporarily disabled by the taser. That's good. You can't, however, just keep on tasing from now on - and the BG frequently - usually - becomes more combative with each jolt. That is until you get cuffs on him and good control - and can quit tasing.

I want him to run, or become unable to continue threatening. I do not wish to have to cuff him. I don't carry cuffs. I don't carry anything to tie him up with. I don't want a "hands-on" fight, at all, and a "hands-on" fight is what you are likely to get. That is OK with the officer, as he gets his man without killing him. It's not OK with me.

Worse, if you make a mistake or are not physically equal to the "hands-on" challenge, the BG may take it away from you and return the "favor." Not for me, thank you.

The Taser - Professional Driver on a closed course. Don't do this at home.

Ray D.
 
For information on states and hand gun laws check out:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

I travel alone in my 5th wheel and like to boondock. I carry a 45 semi-auto in a jackass rig when ever I am alone and feel much more secure because of it. I also have a NM concealed carry permit.
 
All,

U.S MARINE CORPS RULES FOR GUNFIGHTS

1.  Bring a gun and preferably bring at least two guns. 
2.  Bring all of your friends who have guns.
3.  Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. 
4.  Ammo is cheap.  Life is expensive. 
5.  Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
6.  If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly. 
7.  Move away from your attacker.  Distance is your friend. 
8.  Lateral and diagonal movements are preferred. 
9.  If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun.
10.  When possible bring a friend with a long gun. 
11.  In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember
    wholived. 
12.  If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and/or moving. 
13.  Accuracy is relative.  Most combat shooting will be more dependent  on "pucker factor" than the
    inherent accuracy of the gun. 
14.  Use a gun that works "EVERY" time.
15.  Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it
    because it is empty.
16.  Always cheat; always win. The only unfair gun fight is the one you lose.
17.  Have a plan.
18.  Have a back-up plan because the first one may not work. 
19.  Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of your gun,
    not theirs. 
20.  Flank your adversary when possible.  Protect yours. 
21.  During a gunfight never drop your guard. 
22.  Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. 
23.  Watch their hands.  Hands kill.  In God we trust but everyone else, keep your hands where we can see them. 
24.  Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH. 
25.  The faster you finish the fight, the less you will be shot at.
26.  Be polite.  Be professional.  But have a plan to kill everyone who may be trying to kill you. 
27.  Be courteous to everyone and friendly to no one. 
28.  Your number one "Option for Personal Security" is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence,
    and de-escalation.
29.  Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun the caliber of which does not start with a 4.

JerryF
 
There is some very good advice here in this thread.  I have traveled for all of my professional life.  I travel 7 western states.  Not once have I ever been in a situation that I have needed to use personal defense.  Having said that, I am fully prepared to defend myself, family or others if needed.  To the original OP here is my advise:

If you dont feel comfortable where you are parked at, then move to another spot, your gut feeling is the best instinct.

Before you decide to pack any type of defensive weapon, go and practice with the weapon be it a firearm (pistol, shotgun ect), mace, taser, baseball bat, hand to hand, or knife.  After trying them out then decide which one you feel the most comfortable with and get the training you need to do what you have to do.  This is your personal choice, not mine, or anyone else's on this forum or any other place.

Obey all the local & state laws of your chosen procedure, ie if its a firearm, obtain any permits you may need including Concealed Carry, and what states recipricate for that permit.  Obtain out of state permits for firearms if needed and obtainable.  Do not travel in states that do not recipricate for your permit.  Out of state resident permits are available in some states that do not recipricate.  You can legally obtain these.  Check out Packing.Org for laws of each of the 50 states.  Make sure both you & your spouse have permits.   There are some Open carry states, which means that you can carry in open view.   Just make sure you understand the laws of each and every state you travel in.

Keep in mind a cell phone is not a defensive weapon.  If an officer is 30 minutes from your position, & driving at 90 mph it will take approx 15 minutes at best to get to you.  The deed will be done by the time he arrives.  The Police can not be every where all the time.  YOU have the responsibility to protect yourself, your family, and possibly others if needed.   

For what ever reason the Packing.org website is down.  You can also access all the laws at Handgun Laws
 
I am fully prepared to defend myself, family or others if needed. 
Click to expand...

Poltax. Good points and summary. The quote I post above needs clarification. You list it twice, in your post.

If, by "others" you are referring to close friends that you know well, you're good to go. I agree. Beyond that, defending strangers, (where there is no risk of you being threatened) is loaded with hazards. Not that one shouldn't do it, but it needs to be well thought out.

There is a risk of identifying the wrong person as the bad guy. Intervention will make it worse. The cell phone is frequently better in that situation.

A favorite example is where the person walks into a convenience store on a "Robbery In Progress." Do you intervene? Generally, intervention is about as bad an idea as you can find. Of course, if you are directly - immediately - threatened, your options are limited. At that point, you are directly involved whether you wanted to be or not.

About the worst place there is, to intervene, is in a domestic dispute between people not known to you. Cell phone is almost always a better way. Even cops fear that one, and rarely phisically interfere before backup arrives. 

How easy is it to make a mistake? In my ten years as a Volunteer, one of my more pleasing memories is my narcotics interdiction record. But there is embarrassment, too. Of that record, seven were undercover narcotics officers. Yeah, I saw the buy, knew where the drugs and money were, called in help and we took them down. (Ooops! badge and gun!) Yep, they get cuffs and a ride in a marked unit - (until out of sight.) All were gracious about it, some a bit tickled, and it actually helped them with their opperations. Several of my "victims" assured me that the arrest risk went with the undercover territory. No hard feelings. Still, I felt that I had done something stupid.

Be certain of your target - in more ways than one. Good luck and God speed.

Ray D  ;D


 
Well.. Personally.. I happen to believe in helping people.  This extends to protecting them..  However the degree to which I am willing to take a risk would be far higher if the person needing protection was... Say.. May daughter than if it was some stranger off the street.

Page 2:

Narcotics undercover....

The ones who said "It helps us" were speaking truth.  It truly does.. Usually

I did, once, loose a trooper that way.. He was being arrested (For the purpose of establishing his cover) now understand everybody who was involved both the uniformed Officers and the "Suspect" (A plain cloths Michigan State Trooper) knew just exactly who they were and in fact had shared coffee that morning at the station.

However the officer had released the safety on his gun, and when the door hit his elbow.....

Michigan State Police was minus a trooper...  The first trooper of African descent ever killed in the line of duty.  A very fine person and a very fine trooper.  Man spent 4 years on the freeways in Detroit (Where I dispatched) and then transferred to Narcotics and Flint.. Where the accident happened.

Over the quarter century I worked that job we lost a number of troopers for one reason or another, Traffic accidents, Cancer, Just plain old age and yes, murder.. This was the one that hit the department the hardest.

You see.. The shooter was as much a victim as the deceased.  It should not have happened.
 
Ray D........I think my statements stand on their own. 

Trolley Square in SLC UT., just over 1 year ago.  If trained bystander had been there things might have been different.  20/20 hindsight is easy just as a Monday morning quarterback.  My neighbors Son in Law was the first to be killed in the parking lot.  Would you have just stood idley by while others were being shot & killed??
 
If I recall correctly, and I think I do - - -

Trained bystander was there and heroically cut the attack short. He limited the attack to the parking lot just outside the entrance and a single store.  He was an off-duty cop from another jurisdiction. For others, not knowing the circumstances nor where the shooting was coming from, exiting the shopping center or taking cover was a prudent decision. I am friends with two, who were there, both armed and very well trained, but unable to tell where the shooting was coming from.. Police were responding, quickly in that situation, and my friends knew that - and anyone in plain clothes with a gun, expecially shooting, risked mixing it up with the uniforms. Wrong bad guy mistake looking for a place to happen.

If one was right there at the beginning, seeing the action go down, armed and capable, as was that heroic off-duty cop, then intervention is appropriate.  When uniformed cops arrived, he put his gun down, pending identification. Prudent behavior.

Ray D  ;D

Would you have just stood idley by while others were being shot & killed??
Click to expand...
  :mad:

The answer to that is not appropriate to this forum. However, it has been answered and I am comfortable with the answer.



 
One thing to consider in a shooting situtation is the Texas Tower Shooting.  Texas is the very poster child for "Right to carry" in that at the time the gun laws were very liberal there,, Very Very liberal.

A sniper took up a position in a clock tower,  Thousands of rounds were fired by well meaning citizens, Not one of them was effective in stopping him,  Thousands of dollars in damage to the tower, not one shot effective in stopping him.

Finally a properly trained police sharpshooter took one shot.. He was stopped

The key phrase in both this post and several previous post is PROPERLY TRAINED

Folks.. if you don't know what you are doing  DO NOT SHOOT!  IF you do not know how to hit the target DO NOT SHOOT.

Thankfully.. IIRC, no innocent bystanders were hit by shots intended for the sniper.  But if you don't have the proper training.. Well.. Friendly fire kills you just as dead as unfriendly fire.
 
John In Detroit said:
A sniper took up a position in a clock tower,  Thousands of rounds were fired by well meaning citizens, Not one of them was effective in stopping him,  Thousands of dollars in damage to the tower, not one shot effective in stopping him.
Click to expand...

According to the Wikipedia article on the Texas Tower Sniper incident:

Once Whitman [the sniper] began facing return gunfire from the authorities and civilians who had brought out their personal firearms to assist police, he used the waterspouts on each side of the tower as gun ports, allowing him to continue shooting largely protected from the gunfire below but also greatly limiting his range of targets. Ramiro Martinez, an officer credited with neutralizing Whitman, later stated in his book that the civilian shooters should be credited, as they made it difficult for Whitman to take careful aim without being hit

Pinning a sniper with supressing fire is a standard tactic.

 
The story I remember is that a single police officer, on his own, went up into the tower with only a 6 shot 38 and shot the sniper.  This officer had always wanted to be a Texas Ranger which may be one of the hardest corps to join.  Then because of the example of bravery that he set they offered him the opportunity to join and he became a Texas Ranger.

JerryF 
 
To each his own on firearms, like  John from Detroit this harley man born in Battle Creek  sleeps as close to his S&W as I do my harley mamma! Nothing protects a person better then common sense and an equalizer. Many a bad dude has soiled his BVD's at the sound of the cocking of a handgun or a shell being jacked into a shotgun.People in Florida will never forget the creep who killed a Polk Deputy and his K-9 "Diogi". When fllushed from hiding with gun in hand, three SWATS hit him with over 40 assualt rifle rounds and all slept well and didn"t shed a tear till Diogi and his master were lowered together into the cold earth.Florida has passed laws to protect homeowners from home invasions also. If they break in you have the right to have them removed FEET first.God Bless America and our right to bear arms!
 
Ray, I loved that story!

I guess this is going the way of all gun threads on the net.  I

I've never thought much about my legal rights and such when I've been in a "close situation."  I've always took stock in the old adage about firearms, that it's better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.

Steve
 
I guess this is going the way of all gun threads on the net.
Click to expand...

Nope. We'll shut it off before it gets out of hand. Long time forum members (we've been around >15 years) have an unspoken understanding about inflamatory subjects. Stick around a while and you'll get the picture  ;)
 
I just picked up the following off Yahoo a few minutes ago.

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Americans have a right to own guns for self-defense and hunting, the justices' first major pronouncement on gun rights in U.S. history.

Read the full story here.
[edit]Replaced copied content with link to article.[/edit]
 
It certainly is a very major decision, a long time coming for some of us!  ::) ;D It's completely political, with the only change being that politicians and Constitutional lawyers will now argue, not "What does The Second Ammendment say?" But, "What did The Supreme Court just say?" It ain't over!  :D ???

Actually, it raises more questions than it settles. Makes the issue very murky!  ???

For practical application, here, I suggest that if you live in - or travel through - political jurisdictions with strong gun control laws, don't rush right out, buy a gun, and start packin', - unless you are well enough "heeled" to afford the extensive services of a bevy of highly skilled Constitutional lawyers and years of litigation costs.

Wait and watch for the state of the law(s), when much, or most of the dust has settled. It'll be a while!  :(

Ray D  ;D
 
WOW! What a lot of replies. After page two I ordered Alan Korwin's  latest edition (5th) Gun Laws of America. I found this at gunlaws.com. Having never stayed long there before I felt needed to know their laws, They DON'T have many.   
 
Nothing like RVer's talking about guns, warms the heart!
My problem with RV living and bad guys is that there is generally one way into an RV,  minus the emergency windows., and one way out.  I really do not have many choices if someone goes through the door making a forced entry.  I can only assume he is not making a social call.  There are two things that would go through my mind which would be the safety of my wife and myself and to stop the intruder by whatever means at hand.  If a 105 howitzer was available, although GVWR rules that out, then I would use it.  I do like baseball bats, shotguns, pistols and other items that would remind the uninvited guest to RSVP next time.  I am keenly aware of the "Meth" addict out there who does not stop when asked to much less when shot with a .22-cal bullet.  I suspect a hollow-point .357 might be more educational.  Yes we have laws, some good and some bad, governing self defense etiquette.  When you cross the threshold of my door, uninvited, you are asking me for something, be it my money, my life or perhaps a bullet.  Yes I would lose sleep over an episode like that as I am only human and do not have Blackwater credentials.  I am a gentle person, loving my wife, dog and Country.  I am also a very friendly person and would give a person the shirt off my back to help them.  If I was disposed to breaking into the bad guys home I would expect no less from him, seems fair to me.
Phil 
 
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