If you are interested in a RAM 2500 or other Stellantis product........

[RedForeman]

To me, what I have read of the Cummins diesel issue, sounds like government extortion. Cummins has admitted no fault, and has worked for 4 years with the investigators on this. No information has come out as to what Cummins has supposedly done to cheat the system. Hmmm..........

Charles

My suspicion is one or both of these:
1. Cummins is somehow guilty of "enabling." That is, making it possible for others to create emissions defeating devices.
2. What others have suggested, that Cummins tuned to the EPA test conditions (just like they all do) and weren't clever enough about it.

I'd say it's a more a witch hunt than extortion. Cummins isn't going to write a check for $1.6B. It will get negotiated down to a sensible number or nothing. Or any payoff will simply be a "settlement in kind" where Cummins creates a BS non-profit that funnels the investment right back to them, with a little off the top for the elected officials promoting it.

The headline and virtue signaling is what this case is really about.

 

[Joezeppy]

I've never been an "I got the best price ever" kind of guy with cars. I negotiate the best I can and if I think the price is fair, all is well. I was not seriously shopping back in October 2022 but was checking out a website and found a truck that was just what I wanted - 1 ton, 4 door, 8' box, puck system, and not loaded with options. Website "special" was $4,000 off MSRP. It was diesel which, of course, jacked up the price but towing a 5th wheel, that was obviously a benefit. Max towing 7,800 lbs more and CCC about 1,400 lbs more than the truck I had. A few hours later it was mine - the only additional haggling I did was for running boards which they did for half price. Dealer only had it for 2 days. Salesman was puzzled at the discount - turns out (or so he says), someone goofed and put it on the wrong truck. I had perfect timing.

What drives me nuts is as soon as some people see it, it's "What did you pay?", "What did you get for the trade?", "I would have...".

 

[Tulecreeper]

Digital has not had a massive improvement in the last 20 years, however you can no longer get film processed at a reasonable cost.

That's why the majority of people who still use film are professional photographers, like my daughter-in-law.

 

[Jayflight]

That's why the majority of people who still use film are professional photographers, like my daughter-in-law.

When we were kids we used to process film in dark rooms or when we were really in a hurry in a large closet. That was really enjoyable and could produce quality prints. This is a good overlay of the process.

Darkroom Chemicals: Everything You Need to Know | The Photography Professor

In a darkroom, the chemicals you use and how you use them could make the difference between a good photo and a great one. Shooting…

thephotographyprofessor.com

 

[Skookum]

Hum, you continue to talk past the ones that have clearly articulated reasons why Evs do not work for people and specific applications that ICE power provides us. You have provided an instance that you are dependent on fossil fuels and will need it for a very long time as long as you own your fossil fuel consuming rv . But all EVs are by products of fossil fuels .

Owning an EV and virtual signaling about it does not make anyone a better stewards of the earth, the position thats the cornerstone of the movement.
I do still like the statement that says it all about transportation needs. And it does not favor one method over the other. Dependable energy sources that provides a true renewable fill up across a large spectrum for the population is fossil fuels.



I am surely glad i did not fall for the idea like millions did that the world was going to end in 2016 either.


.

We didn't buy an EV to save fuel, money, or the earth. Owning a particular type of car doesn't make me any more or less virtuous, but it does make me experienced in owning and driving an EV compared to someone who only rages against them from a keyboard.

EV's don't work for all people, and I've never insinuated that they did. My answer is always the same...if you don't like EV's, or if one doesn't work for your needs, don't buy one.

But that's not enough for some. Some folks have to disparage and discredit EV's at every chance they get. I wonder why that is. Why are some people SO CONCERNED that someone else owns an EV? Hmm?

 

[Jayflight]

EV's don't work for all people, and I've never insinuated that they did. My answer is always the same...if you don't like EV's, or if one doesn't work for your needs, don't buy one.

Maybe you should email our politicians and pass this along to them. If they get their way the general public may not get their chance to decide what they drive for themselves. And those tax credits to buy the EVs is nothing more than selected goverment-private partnership.

One thing is for sure, the ones pushing this EV crap has less experience with them then most of us speaking here with substantive and real life opinions. You do know some only own gas guzzling corvettes and Surburbans too.

I can tell you with complete confidence that most of the heavier hybrid vehicles SUCK, all brands, as with the EV trucks. One manufacturer has disconnected their start-stop feature too on their engines. People are not interested in driving hobby horses.

There are lots full of regular flavor hybrid and EVs, no matter how many of the Teslas are on the road or ordered. Factories are reducing their EV production numbers too. Even without some of us speaking casually about the EV push, the general public is speaking with their closed wallets.

 

[Viajeros]

Obviously it will be awhile before larger trailers can be viably towed by EV trucks. I don’t think there is even a single 3/4 ton EV truck on anyone’s drawing board yet.

But smaller trailers are already getting pretty common behind various EV SUV’s and trucks. I know the max pack Rivian is now available (in limited numbers), I believe the Denali is hitting the streets next summer and the extended range cybertruck is now in production. Apparently about 25 percent of the folks ordering the founders edition are ordering it with the extended range pack. I suspect they intend to tow with it.

The other challenge is the charging facilities. Efforts need to be made to make those more trailer friendly. It’s happening but rather slowly. Even drive in back out is okay. We have used those before and they are ok as long as the parking lot is deep enough. It’s a compromise to a drive thru stall but it works. This is a new one just about ready to open up in Manning Provincial park in BC. There is a drive thru B.C. hydro charger there that we use but this one is faster so we’ll probably use it next time. Change takes time but it comes. EV sales growth remains strong and it will only get stronger although it looks like Ford and GM maybe slowly backing away from the market. And that’s fine too. Others will step in.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Obviously it will be awhile before larger trailers can be viably towed by EV trucks. I don’t think there is even a single 3/4 ton EV truck on anyone’s drawing board yet.

But smaller trailers are already getting pretty common behind various EV SUV’s and trucks. I know the max pack Rivian is now available (in limited numbers), I believe the Denali is hitting the streets next summer and the extended range cybertruck is now in production. Apparently about 25 percent of the folks ordering the founders edition are ordering it with the extended range pack. I suspect they intend to tow with it.

The other challenge is the charging facilities. Efforts need to be made to make those more trailer friendly. It’s happening but rather slowly. Even drive in back out is okay. We have used those before and they are ok as long as the parking lot is deep enough. It’s a compromise to a drive thru stall but it works. This is a new one just about ready to open up in Manning Provincial park in BC. There is a drive thru B.C. hydro charger there that we use but this one is faster so we’ll probably use it next time. Change takes time but it comes. EV sales growth remains strong and it will only get stronger although it looks like Ford and GM maybe slowly backing away from the market. And that’s fine too. Others will step in.

And that is possible, but it will be by companies that are only trying to take advantage of a gap and really don't know what they are doing and it will take a long while before buyers put any trust in them.

For example, back in the 1970's there was a push by the government to have manufacturers make smaller and more economical cars - compacts and sub-compacts - but the public wasn't interested so a couple of the main auto makers took a pass. That's when Hyundai stepped in.

Hyundai? The only thing the American public had seen that name on prior to that was on weedeaters and other small garden equipment. It took a long time before the buying public would even entertain the idea of purchasing a car from a weedeater manufacturer.

 

[Viajeros]

And that is possible, but it will be by companies that are only trying to take advantage of a gap and really don't know what they are doing and it will take a long while before buyers put any trust in them.

For example, back in the 1970's there was a push by the government to have manufacturers make smaller and more economical cars - compacts and sub-compacts - but the public wasn't interested so a couple of the main auto makers took a pass. That's when Hyundai stepped in.

Hyundai? The only thing the American public had seen that name on prior to that was on weedeaters and other small garden equipment. It took a long time before the buying public would even entertain the idea of purchasing a car from a weedeater manufacturer.

That’s funny. I did not know that. Thanks for the interesting history.

 

[Skookum]

Maybe you should email our politicians and pass this along to them. If they get their way the general public may not get their chance to decide what they drive for themselves. And those tax credits to buy the EVs is nothing more than selected goverment-private partnership.

One thing is for sure, the ones pushing this EV crap has less experience with them then most of us speaking here with substantive and real life opinions. You do know some only own gas guzzling corvettes and Surburbans too.

I can tell you with complete confidence that most of the heavier hybrid vehicles SUCK, all brands, as with the EV trucks. One manufacturer has disconnected their start-stop feature too on their engines. People are not interested in driving hobby horses.

There are lots full of regular flavor hybrid and EVs, no matter how many of the Teslas are on the road or ordered. Factories are reducing their EV production numbers too. Even without some of us speaking casually about the EV push, the general public is speaking with their closed wallets.

Negative, Linda. EV ownership is increasing year over year around the globe. It looks like EV's are here to stay despite the ebb and flow of certain models and production challenges. This is a learning curve, an evolution.

I have a substantive and real-life opinion of an EV since I actually drive one now. It definitely does not suck.

Who are you to say what people are interested in, a grand arbiter who decides what vehicles see production? It seems to me like a lot more people are becoming interested in EV's and that makes some people really upset, apparently.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Negative, Linda. EV ownership is increasing year over year around the globe. It looks like EV's are here to stay despite the ebb and flow of certain models and production challenges. This is a learning curve, an evolution.

I have a substantive and real-life opinion of an EV since I actually drive one now. It definitely does not suck.

Who are you to say what people are interested in, a grand arbiter who decides what vehicles see production? It seems to me like a lot more people are becoming interested in EV's and that makes some people really upset, apparently.

That is what the govt is trying to be.

 

[Jayflight]

Negative, Linda

The name is Geraldine and my DH is Flip. Please address me in the further with the proper nomenclature of sorts.

I have a substantive and real-life opinion of an EV since I actually drive one now. It definitely does not suck.

The key word is opinion, which in the current real world carries no more weight than anyone else witnessing the mainstream manufacturers backing their opinions by cutting off money to build them. The funds to manufacturer and sell the EVs as a way to appease politicians without government money propping them up is declining. Short term government money for investment into the failed ventures is only a one time shot in the arm right now. Of course there is no real grant money that I know of for small business to manufacture paper straws, which has gotten mandated too.

There has been several versions and updates in propulsion systems, but as of yet the only manufacturer that has somewhat perfected the EV power system is not mainstream and still not a cheap venture for the consumer.

Who are you to say what people are interested in, a grand arbiter who decides what vehicles see production?

I don’t have to initiate the conversation on what people are interested in. Market forces for alternatives to Tesla can be compared to the failed venture of the Edsel.

EV ownership is increasing year over year around the globe

This is a general statement and frankly watching the nutty goings on in countries around the world , it means nothing. It does not help sell EVs that has little infrastructure across the board in the U.S. Just ask the Ford CEO about that, if you wish to discount the average citizen buying cheap knock offs of the Tesla models.

 

[Skookum]

That is what the govt is trying to be.

Still waiting for those mandates. SO far, I don't see any.

The name is Geraldine and my DH is Flip. Please address me in the further with the proper nomenclature of sorts.



The key word is opinion, which in the current real world carries no more weight than anyone else witnessing the mainstream manufacturers backing their opinions by cutting off money to build them. The funds to manufacturer and sell the EVs as a way to appease politicians without government money propping them up is declining. Short term government money for investment into the failed ventures is only a one time shot in the arm right now. Of course there is no real grant money that I know of for small business to manufacture paper straws, which has gotten mandated too.

There has been several versions and updates in propulsion systems, but as of yet the only manufacturer that has somewhat perfected the EV power system is not mainstream and still not a cheap venture for the consumer.



I don’t have to initiate the conversation on what people are interested in. Market forces for alternatives to Tesla can be compared to the failed venture of the Edsel.



This is a general statement and frankly watching the nutty goings on in countries around the world , it means nothing. It does not help sell EVs that has little infrastructure across the board in the U.S. Just ask the Ford CEO about that, if you wish to discount the average citizen buying cheap knock offs of the Tesla models.

Again, my "opinion" is from the standpoint of owning and driving an EV, and it's been truly great.

You'll enjoy this. We're taking our EV to California with us for a month for our annual winter RV stay in the sun. No, it can't be flat-towed, but that's OK. We have a flatbed trailer which we bought for our Jeep because I refuse to flat tow it, even though it can be. So we're putting the iX on the flatbed and towing it with our diesel RV. The iX weighs 5800lbs, the trailer another 2400.

Don't worry, we don't plan to use the pedestal at our RV site to charge, and we won't need to. Even with plans to run the iX from the desert up to LA a few times along with some other adventures, there's plenty of range and no shortage of fast chargers which can get the car to full in less than a half hour. Lunch break, anyone?

 

[Tulecreeper]

Still waiting for those mandates. SO far, I don't see any.

No mandates, they don't need to enact any. You're a smart dude, you know all they need to do is keep raising the CAFE standards bar to impossible heights, forcing the manufacturers to make more and more EVs and less and less ICE vehicles until EVs are forced on everyone by default.

 

[Jayflight]

No mandates, they don't need to enact any. You're a smart dude, you know all they need to do is keep raising the CAFE standards bar to impossible heights, forcing the manufacturers to make more and more EVs and less and less ICE vehicles until EVs are forced on everyone by default.

As it relates to mandates, the state of Ca and its governator has created just a bill , mandating just EV vehicles to be sold. You will have one option if you wish to own a new vehicle, if things comes to fruition.

Shockwaves from a different kind of quake rippled out from California in August 2022 when the state announced its pending requirement that all new passenger cars, trucks, and SUVs sold there will create zero emissions by 2035. Essentially, this means internal-combustion-engine (ICE), fossil-fuel vehicles that rule the roads today get the boot, and electric cars take over.

Formally known as the Advanced Clean Car II Regulations, the state's proposed mandate takes effect in stages, requiring 35% of new-car sales to be zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs) in 2026 and 68% in 2030 before reaching 100% five years later. California's plan includes state support for the shift to ZEVs with $2.4 billion for vehicle purchase incentives, charging infrastructure, and public outreach.

The dealers will be required to have them on the lot, no matter if there is a demand for a certain model the dealers carry.

Of course they would never put in the fine print a true ban on using ICE is the state. But if anyone happens to be foolish enough to move into the state with an ICE engine vehicle, , its quite possible that the state will not register it and tag it. Don't put anything past this crowd of EV zealots.

 

[DeckArtist]

We didn't buy an EV to save fuel, money, or the earth. Owning a particular type of car doesn't make me any more or less virtuous, but it does make me experienced in owning and driving an EV compared to someone who only rages against them from a keyboard.

EV's don't work for all people, and I've never insinuated that they did. My answer is always the same...if you don't like EV's, or if one doesn't work for your needs, don't buy one.

But that's not enough for some. Some folks have to disparage and discredit EV's at every chance they get. I wonder why that is. Why are some people SO CONCERNED that someone else owns an EV? Hmm?

Don't take other opinions personally. I am not sure anyone cares what you own and I even said that myself. We all have opinions many others will disagree with.

 

[stripit]

We're taking our EV to California with us for a month for our annual winter RV stay in the sun. No, it can't be flat-towed, but that's OK. We have a flatbed trailer which we bought for our Jeep because I refuse to flat tow it, even though it can be. So we're putting the iX on the flatbed and towing it with our diesel RV. The iX weighs 5800lbs, the trailer another 2400.

I too have a X and would love to flat tow it behind the motorhome, but had the wife follow me and we are using it here in California. I do charge off the site power pole, 30 amp and since we are paying for the electric doesn't really matter where I charge. We bought it because we wanted to try something new, and for the past 4 years have really enjoyed it.

 

[Skookum]

No mandates, they don't need to enact any. You're a smart dude, you know all they need to do is keep raising the CAFE standards bar to impossible heights, forcing the manufacturers to make more and more EVs and less and less ICE vehicles until EVs are forced on everyone by default.

It worked well for a long time, though, didn’t it?. A modern ICE is more powerful, reliable, and efficient than ever before. A diesel pickup can put 1200lb-ft torque to the ground, tow 30,000 lbs …and not even soot the tail pipe.

A modern gas V8? 0-60 in 4 seconds and it will run on pump gas and get 20mpg on the highway.

 

[Tulecreeper]

It worked well for a long time, though, didn’t it?. A modern ICE is more powerful, reliable, and efficient than ever before. A diesel pickup can put 1200lb-ft torque to the ground, tow 30,000 lbs …and not even soot the tail pipe.

A modern gas V8? 0-60 in 4 seconds and it will run on pump gas and get 20mpg on the highway.

Sorry, I don't get your point.

 

[Skookum]

Sorry, I don't get your point.

A lot of ICE development and innovation for the better happened because of EPA, CAFE and CARB standards.